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By: Business gas and electricity prices | posted in Complaints, Reviews |
Date: March 17th, 2009

Message from the Ontario Government: Door-to-Door Water Heater Rentals

Complaints about door-to-door rental agreements for water heaters jumped into third place on the Ontario Ministry of Consumer Services Top Consumer Complaints list in 2010, a sign that some businesses and salespeople may be using aggressive or misleading practices.

This post is not about water heater installation prices or about how much money we can save, it is not about saving the world and this is not about the energy-efficient water heater. It is about the sleazy sale tactics use by some door-to-door sale men. This is about being properly informed and at least has the opportunity to make an informed choice.

The power of high-pressure sales: From CBC aired on March 20, 2009

We would be more than happy to pay $2 or $5 dollars more each month for something we needed, instead the door-to-door salesman tried to replace our 50 gallon gas water heater that was only 7 years old (life span up to 15 years) and doesn’t need replacement. The salesman was an “independent” energy agent who mislead us by saying our natural gas water heater was out dated, might blow up, need to replace some piping and contain dirty water. When he only looked at my tank for 10 seconds. Also, he wasn’t a water heater technician, he was a sale man, an “independent” energy agents and how would he knew what was inside the tank without opening it?

On top of that the “independent” energy agent didn’t even mention the long-term contract and left out many details on the contract and did not clearly disclose all the water heater installation prices, terms and conditions. For example, the “independent” energy agent left out the large fine for their cancellation fees and the fine for transferring my contract if I was to sell my home and the new home owner does don’t carry over the contract.

I don’t work for any other hot water heaters company like Direct Energy or any other. I agree if you have a gas hot water heater over 15 – 20 years old, it is time to replace it, but make sure you know all the terms, rules, and the cost. I hate being mislead, for that reason alone I would never buy anything or support a company that use misleading information.

Here is an article from The Star “Don’t sign sales deals at your door”, about door-to-door agents making misleading and incorrect information.

Here is another article from The Star about poor installation, needing the exhaust fix after the installation. Read here: Beware door-to-door hot water tank sellers

What you should know before signing for a water heater upgrade?

  1. Cancellation fees, long-term contract, pushy sales people and misleading marketing tactics.
  2. Be in a long-term contract

    TERMS & CONDITIONS

    2. Term and Payment

    “…and for the useful life of the equipment…”

  3. No pipes need replacement. If there is something wrong with your current water heater, call your current provider and ask about it. These “independent” energy sale agent love to use fear tactics and they will say anything to get your signature so they can get their commissions. Door-to-door sale are well known for their deceptive practices.
  4. Pay $4000+ dollars in total. More than our current provider.
  5. When we sell our home we will need the new home owner to carry over the hot water heater contract. If the new home owner does not want to carry the contract for whatever reason. We will have to pay hundred of dollars to break the contract. (Again, “independent” energy agents doesn’t want you to know, unless you ask )
  6. Door-to-door sale agents may falsely claim to be from your current provider or made themselves sound like they were sent by the government on a routine checkup or say your current provider (Direct Energy, Reliance) no longer provide hot water heater service or say they want to give free water heater check up, when in fact they are not licensed technician and Direct Energy, Reliance are still in business.
  7. Why are the “independent” energy agents are wearing a full uniform by the company? If these sale agents really “independent” energy agents, shouldn’t they be wearing their “independent” uniform and not the company? You should only be allowed to wear a full uniform by a company if you work for the company and that company should take full accountability for all of their employees.
  8. Sale agents will replace your old natural gas water heater and install the new tank for FREE. Also include 2 months Free. (It’s not free installation)

If your natural gas water heater is over 15 years old, contact your current provider to see if they will replace it with a newer energy-efficient water heater, usually they do at no charge. It doesn’t cost anything to ask.

WARNING:

They are now installing the water heater tank the next day without 10-60 days reaffirmed by the customer. If their product is so good why are they installing the tanks without the 10 days cooling off period?

Here is an article on TheStar.com on what happened when an “independent” energy agent came to someone’s home in Ajax and after 20 minutes of signing. A technician came to remove their natural gas water heater tank.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/701345

If you are here, it is probably because you are one of their victim. But you can always fight back. Don’t let them walk all over you and does nothing about it. We all have to speak up and tell our stories. Read below to find what you can do to stop this company from hurting you and other people in your community.

Did a door-to-door salesman come to your home and:

  • Create confusion in your mind about water heater?
  • Mislead or misrepresent any aspect of their offer?
  • Abuse your trust?
  • Unduly pressure or harass you to enter into a transaction?
  • Exploit your lack of experience or knowledge in purchasing water heater or legal contracts?
  • Did they harass you?
  • Did they deal with your spouse or other that has language or comprehension issues?
  • Did you end up signing anyways, after you told them to leave?

If you answer “YES” to one or more, write down what happened and call or send complaints to The Ministry of Consumer Services. Tell them your horror story.

Canceling Your Contract

* The contract is subject to a cooling off period. You have the absolute right to cancel (for any reason) within 10 days of receiving a written copy of the agreement.

* The vendor has made a false, misleading or deceptive representation about the goods or services you agreed to buy or lease.

* The information about the goods or services, or your rights as a consumer required by the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, are not provided to you in the agreement.

Read more…

Bottom Line: any strangers show up at your door offering to save you money is highly likely to be lying. No one get out of their way to go save you money, they only do it because they need to get pay.

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By: Business gas and electricity prices
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There are 159 comments for Door-to-door water heater sale

  1. d says:

    did you end up cancelling? is it still possible? read the contract.

    • Kory Healey says:

      I bought a house with a national home service hot water tank already installed…I want to upgrade to a power vented one, but they want 900 to get out of this contact i never signed..

      Are there anyways to get out of this???

      • tl says:

        theres nothing wrong with a cv tank ….PV are only used for homes w/out a chimney as they dont build new homes with a chimney usually so PV is the only option. An upgrade is only required if u need a larger sized tank than the one you already have.CV TO PV is not an upgrade ..just a change on how gases are vented out of the home from the tank.jus sayin…..

  2. Maggie says:

    This was very interesting and informative. Thanks!

    If these guys who sit around thinking up ways to con people would put their efforts toward something useful and honest, just think how great our society would be.

    Thanks again!

  3. marcus says:

    Here is what tipped me off.

    1-day installation.

    Chinese sales and technicians. warning.

    • Piano Blues says:

      racist

    • John says:

      Piano Blues; I remember you said something about the above video not being the same thing as energy?

      I have proof that Universal Energy are the same people from National Home Services. Read below…

      "Universal Energy Group's common shares are listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol "UEG". Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Universal Energy Corporation, sells electricity and natural gas in Ontario and natural gas in British Columbia to residential, small to mid-size commercial and small industrial customers. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Universal Gas & Electric Corporation, sells natural gas in Michigan to residential, small to mid-size commercial and small industrial customers. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary National Energy Corporation, operating under the trade name National Home Services, offers Ontario residential customers a long term water heater rental program. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Terra Grain Fuels Inc., operates an ethanol facility in Belle Plaine, Saskatchewan that is designed to produce approximately 150 million litres of ethanol annually."

      The link is here http://www.annualreports.com/Company/4800

      But hey, if you are happy with it then go with it. I'm just saying I don't like people coming in to my house bull shiting me and I dont want to spend more than I have too. However, if you have the money then go with it.

  4. John says:

    If anyone show up to your door saying they're from Direct Energy or NHS or any other energy company and say they are here to save you money. Don't just take their words for it, do your homework or just shut your door. It's hard to believe anyone would show up to your door to save you money.

    If you do the math you are best to to save yourself money to buy your on water heater regardless of what company you're under. It might seem to cost some money at first but after 3 or 4 years you will get that money back.

  5. Val says:

    Just had a guy from National Home Service (Water Heater Division)show up at my door.. at the same time as I was on my phone, trying to send a text to the U.K. on a cell and listening to my ill child calling for me all the while the dog was barking. Not good timing for the sales guy! He was trying to tell me his shpeel and being so busy, told him I was good. He then became rude and snapped at me telling me he didn't ask if I was good! Great way to make a sale! Not. I then got angry and sharply told him I couldn't talk to him so he huffed and puffed and said he'd be back. Good luck. Next time, I hope I don't have 18 things happening at once so I can calmly tell him to get off my property as I did not call him and he is trespassing. I would not even hesitate to call the police frankly. Consumers are so much smarter these days. Why would anyone, I mean anyone, buy anything from a guy who comes to your door??

  6. Lou says:

    yep … they have come twice now in the past week demanding that our water heater must be replaced and that we were notified of this replacement in our Enbridge bill and that the company he works for is affiliated with Enbridge. What bothers me is that I called Enbridge/Direct Energy to complain and they said there was nothing they could do because there is always something included in the Enbridge bill about gas marketers etc so techincally he was telling the truth and if we did sign up with them (even unknowingly) … Enbridge bills on their behalf so they are "affiliated". Sad part is, for every 95 intelligent customers who see through it there will always be that 5 who do not and will sign up (likely at a premium) and will never know differently because their same old Enbridge bill shows up and because the amount of gas you use is not constant and rates always changing – the few extra dollars every few months will not be noticed.

  7. Baulzy says:

    I work for this company, and after reading this just would like to straighten a few things out.

    National Home Services replaces old water tanks with energy star rated, more efficient ones free of charge.

    Its nothing to do with a gas contract or anything else.

    If you are already paying rent anyway for an old one that is wasting energy and money, why not get a free upgrade? It saves money.

    I can understand some people being scared by 15 year contract. But, for that whole time the tank is babied and taken care of so that it works well/at 'energy star' efficiency. The goal is to keep people happy.

    There is a difference than being an informed customer, and writing incorrect, misinformed statements over the internet.

    • NA says:

      Bug your missing the point of what is being said. It's not free. Fail…

    • Secret agent says:

      OKAY I workED for this company too…like two weeks.

      YOU guys gotta try understand the agent or atleast have a pity on them, because NHS BRAINWASH these young kids each and every morning.

      Each morning at 10am, all the agents must to have a training and they tells us what to say and how to behave. They would never say anything about their scams and anything negative about their products. Well and practically brain wash the kids.

      I worked at NHS for two weeks and left for two reasons. ONE: They are telling us to lie. They were "training" agent to PRETEND like we are the only provider in that specific region, never told us a real reason behind.

      SECOND: The company ignores work place hazards. They put all the agents into scorching heat above 36C (44C in humidex) and make us to work under this condition without complaining. Do they care if their agents gets over heated? NO. I didn't show up for work for two days. I have asthma that is sensitive in humid. I literally can't breath under this weather. Guess what. They gave me a warning.

      And all these work, did they pay me? NO. I supposed to give them two weeks of notice (which we did not know, because they took the contract paper from us when we were signing up for the work) I got paid zero dollars.

      Well.. i honestly do not know if NHS is a scam or not. but i know they mistreating their own agents.

    • david says:

      Try to cancel your service see what they tell you? I had a problem to cancel my water heater with Reliance, even if I have no contract with them. They want to charge me disconcerting fees and pick up fee. I told them I had no contract with that, just get the dam water heater out of my house. They did not response me now. What should I do? just simply don't pay their rent bill? At least National Home Services let you know what you have to pay before you rent.

    • Tony Spitman says:

      my husband unknowingly signed up with National on a whim one day when they came to our door. He is a little too trusting. He signed a contract which stated National would notify Reliance we no longer needed their services. After about a month we received a Reliance bill in the mail but were told by National to ignore it. Apparently Reliance refused to have the tanks returned so that is their "out" so to speak. After receiving bill #2 today I called Reliance. The girl on the other end kept babbling about not being informed, they had no idea we had switched and until they had the water heater returned to them with a reference number we would continue to be on their billing list. So I called National and in a nut shell the lady said for us now to ignore any bills past August 18th. as they were taking Reliance to court re not accepting the old water heaters. So now basically I have to pay two bills or I might face a court case or bad credit from Reliance!!!!! National and Reliance, if they are going to take them to court, could be tied up for years. Quite a mess. THe moral of the story. DO NOT SIGN UP FOR ANYTHING AT YOUR DOOR UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING FOR!!!!

    • UnitedHomeSchoolers says:

      Maybe I have watched too much TV in my time, but if I'm not mistaken, either in the US or in Canada, when you're in court, you are requested to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth. To withhold pertinent information is a form of lying. There's no doubt in my mind that National withholds truth during its sales pitches.

    • boviewan says:

      I also work for NHS. I have come across a HUGE number of HAPPY customers in my time working this job (less than a month). No one from our company should be saying they are from enbridge or in any way affiliated with them. Since we ALWAYS check with the customer to ensure that our reps are NOT making these claims. Anyone who said anything along those lines was likely fired within less than a week. The same goes for those who are rude. The hiring process is fast if you are good for the job. The firing process is faster if you are misleading people or misrepresenting the company. I am aware that even THIS will be turned by all those people out there who will believe us a scam because of information that was originally released into the world by our competator. I can already imagine the headlines "National Home Services Fires Employees". The rental agreement is exactly what you would have on any other rental of anything including apartments and such. There is NO fee for transfering between home owners. Oh, and the T.S.S.A. code for the venting of water heaters DID change, rather than saying it's a lie RESAERCH THROUGH TSSA. If your water heater were to break and need replacing tomorrow, your venting would have to be changed. Finally, there is NO way you sign up with us without knowing we are not your current provider. You will be told at least 5 times and by at least 2 people that we are not your provider by the end of the process. So if anyone here claims to have signed up thinking we were their current provider, they must have REALLY paid NO attention to what they were being told.

      P.S. Voting down the positive things about this company so that they aren't seen is REALLY immature.

      • boviewan says:

        You must have missed my other post where I aknowledged the fees for ending the agreement. Funny how you try and say i am misleading people by saying the TSSA code changed becuase you only have to change the venting if your water heater needs replacing, when I said that. Funny how you will take partial quotes to make me seem like a liar, and then accusing me of misleading people. You may think me naive, but I really thoroughly researched this company before working for it. I researched through all the proper channels, of course. Pages like this mean nothing to me as I know well enough that they are just opinion, sometimes backed up by mostly lazy and biased research. I only posted here because I thought I might get some people coming across this website to look at both sides of the arguement instead of only reading everything negative and accepting it as absolute fact. I absolutely encourage proper, objective research into anything before you accept it.

  8. Baulzy says:

    I highly doubt people would make an issue about having an energy star water tank when they buy a house. Most people are big on the lower carbon footprint. The issue has not come up at all yet.

    Remember that any company is a business, and to front the cost of a brand new tank with labour, parts and service in people costs money. If people turn around and cancel there will be no way any business can survive.

    The 2 or 3 dollars extra a month is more than made up for in gas savings of the new tanks. Once again, the goal is to have happy customers.

    • Energy Review says:

      I highly doubt people would make an issue about having an energy star water tank when they buy a house. Most people are big on the lower carbon footprint. The issue has not come up at all yet.

      There is always a chance that the new home owner will not want the water heater. Also, the contract is a long time and by the time you move, say 10 years. There will be better water heater tanks and a good chance the new home owner will want to get the newer tank.

      Remember that any company is a business, and to front the cost of a brand new tank with labour, parts and service in people costs money. If people turn around and cancel there will be no way any business can survive.

      Most companies don’t use sleazy door-to-door tactics. Look at the Better Business Bureau rating on National Home Services.

      And the rating for the sister company called Universal.

      The 2 or 3 dollars extra a month is more than made up for in gas savings of the new tanks. Once again, the goal is to have happy customers.

      This is not about the money, or saving the planet from green house gas. It is about your sales guy that came in my home then mislead us to sign and without fully clarify all the terms and conditions. He didn't even show the contract when he was here. On top of that – multi years contract that we have to stick with, which I was not told about.

      • boviewan says:

        Actually, should the new home owner not want the tank for some strange reason. They are the ones choosing to change the agreement, therefore, they are the ones who pay. You will probably complain about this but it's fair, you make a choice, and it's not fair if the new home owner makes you pay for that choice.

        • Annie says:

          WRONG. The new home owners cannot be the one breaking the contract if they never agree to take over the contract. The only way this would happen is if the new home owners agreed to take over the contract and signed papers stating this, then after they move in decide to break the contract. Otherwise, why would the new home owners have to pay for a decision made by the current owners. THEY are the ones who mad the choice to go with NHS, and THEY are the ones who have to pay the cancellation fees if the new home owners do not agree to take over the contract. NICE TRY!

    • UnitedHomeSchoolers says:

      "The issue has not come up at all yet"?

      Would you be willing to swear to that? Why then is the Internet swarming with anti-National warnings?

  9. Bigman says:

    I have too disagree with you guys oin this forum. I was with Direct energy for 7 years and they never maintained the tank I had and yet they gave me an annual increase of almost 4% a year. The NHS guys came, took out the crappy hot water tank and gave me an energy star tank and let me know it is transferaable with the tank and will maintain it. lol..I also found out I get 2 monthsd free rental and I can sign up my newighbours and get 2 months free fopr each of them. I am completely satisfied with them. For the ones who are non believers…stick to your crappy 9 year old gas waster…

    • rich says:

      Bigman is definitely an asshole who works for National Home Services. One of their guys came to my door today in Ajax, he spoke at about a hundred words per minute to a point I had to interrupt and tell him to stop talking, he insinuated he was with the company that services my water heater and was here to replace it for free, I had to directly ask him to repeat that he was my current provider, I had to ask him twice to respond when he finally said no, but we got all these people on your street to sign up and showed me his clipboard and our neighbours addresses are highlighted in yellow (little does he know I know them all) so normally I love these door to door salespeople cause I'm always a step ahead, and usually I end up telling them to fuck off but he offered me a free inspection and since I had just moved into the house I said go ahead, the long story short he never mentioned locking in for 15 yrs only 15 yr warranty where they come every 4-5 years to do maintenance, I asked directly about canceling and he said there would be a $200 penalty same as direct energy, reading other blogs above it seems he was lying about both.

  10. E says:

    I signed up and they didn't show up to install the tank. I got worried and searched the net. Now I has called them to cancel. They seems to be fine. I also asked there is a 10 days cooling period, rite and the lady on the phone said yes. So I guess this is ok. Buying my own tank, never considered.. will do more searching!!

  11. Martin says:

    I got scammed and it took me 3 months to get out of my contract without any exit fees.

    I advise everyone to check out this video clip that illustrates the practice of these people:

    http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/power_of_persuasion/m...

  12. william says:

    Thats a shame theys guys offer you a lower rate on water heater and its rated energy Star unlike direct who are not 100% canuck ,Why pay a company that is not canadian why not keep our rental cash inn canada ,NO WONDER we have no jobs here , just keep buying from other countrys if you like your job so much !!!

  13. G says:

    OMG! My husband was going to get the water heater changed with National Home Service yesterday and a Tech came in with his assistant and guess what happened, his assistant was going to steal my ipod touch. I went downstairs while they were all there and then the Tech sent him for a latter and while upstairs I heard foot steps near my dinning room where the Ipod touch was and ran upstairs because there was no need for the kid to be in the dinning room area. I looked at the dinning room table and the ipod was gone. I called my husband upstairs and told him to tell the tech what happened. My husband told the Tech and the assistant was confronted. They were about to leave and I told the assistant to hand it over otherwise I was going to call the cops and he said "call the cops, I don’t have it". I knew then he had put it down somewhere but I did not know if he had it with him still or had put it in the truck already. I called the police and made the complaint to National Home Services. I told the police call taker that the men were still in the house. She then told me to tell them to remain in the premises until the cops get there. I told the men. We were waiting for over 2hrs for the police and then my husband remembered that the boy was on the later when he returned back downstairs after I called for him. We were all outside the house waiting for the cops at this time. My husband told the tech he was going to check the house again and he went down to where the heater is and looked all over. He did not think of checking the area earlier, he said he could not see anything so he put his hand in and started touching around the area and came across the ipod touch. The little idiot had left it there after hearing me say that the ipod was gone. He made everyone wait for the cops and his technician ended up losing 2 to 3 jobs while waiting (we were feeling bad for the tech but now that I read the below, I don’t feel so bad after all). All that time he knew were it was, we gave him the option of handing it over and he did not care, it was so frustrating and the kid had no remorse over it, he kept denying everything. I am sure it was not his first time. God knows how many other things he has stolen and his Supervisor had no clue.

    Anyways, I called off the cops by request of my husband and I cancelled the contract with National Home Services. In a way, I am glad this happened, otherwise we would have been stuck with this water heater. It’s true what they say: Things happen for a reason.

    Please be careful when you have people coming into your home. You never know what they will take. It’s so sad to know that you can’t trust anyone.

  14. Elaine says:

    What is everyone whining about?

    1. Don't sign contracts before you read them.

    2. If you don't like the terms of the contract or what is being offered, decline it.

    3. If you don't want to rent a major appliance, buy it – from whatever company you want.

    If you sign a contract, you are bound by it – be an adult and deal with it – maybe even learn from your mistake instead of shifting the blame on to someone else.

    • Elaine says:

      I did read your post. In it you admit you signed the contract before doing any research about the cost of renting vs buying a water heater – and you obviously didn't read the contract since you were astonished to find out that it was for 15 years!

    • UnitedHomeSchoolers says:

      Elaine, have you read Crime and Punishment? It's all about a young guy who thought he was really smart, and because he was really smart, he belonged to a "higher" class of people who could commit murder with impunity.

      There are people in this world who aren't as smart as you. They sometimes get taken in. Is it OK for the strong to exploit the weak? Sounds Darwinian. Sounds Satanic.

    • boviewan says:

      DUDE! READ THE FULL AGREEMENT! The ONLY thing you are charged for leaving is whatever rent you haven't paid yet, and the cost of removal. Unless you leave before 5 years, in which case, the initial cost of installing the water heater was not made back and then you pay for it. Plain and simple these "huge fees" are paying for the work done in your home.

    • rich says:

      ….don't forget mentioning the $600 cancellation fee, the fact that it will devalue your home because the new homeowner must accept the contract

      otherwise……..$600…….the lowlife sales pitches targeted at the elderly telling them they are from your gas provider in the area assessing the need for new water heaters completely free (may I inspect yours today)….oh yeah terribly urgent to change this immediately, you are losing energy as we speak….just sign here and here.

  15. Steve says:

    National are saying that they'll replace the water heater with a high efficiency model. The only high efficiency water heater available on the marketplace is branded Polaris water heater made by American Water Heater from tennesee. National is plain lying and are overstating the issue about "dirty water heaters that need to be replaced". I over 30 years in the business and have been in every water heater manufacturer's plant. The efficiency has not changed from days gone by. If you are on city water or if you live in a hard water area and have a water softener there will be a small amount of crud inside the bottom of the water heater. Don't worry about it, it's normal and the tanks will not be affected to the point that the efficiency is lower as there are additional standard design features that provide the transfer of heat from the flame to the water inside the tank.

    Never sign a contract or agreement before you have done your homework.

    • Steve says:

      One more thing. A power vented appliance is actually less efficient than a standard water heater. All a power vented model is a conventional tank with a ventor motor on the top of the tank. Reason why a power vented tank is less efficient is due to the large amount of air that is pulled thru the tank during the combustion cycle.

  16. Jeff says:

    I sign the contract with National last month when they came to my door and 2 weeks ago they sent someone to replace my water heater with National water heater. The next day the new water heater started to leak out water, I called National and they said they were going to send someone to have it fix the next mourning.

    The next day came and no one came and I call National again and they finally send someone to fix it the day after that. We went almost 3 days without hot water. If we were paying 4 dollars more than our last provider, we expect better service. I wish I can cancel my contract but now everything is install, we don't have much of a choice.

    Stay away from National Home Services water heater!!

  17. Terry says:

    I had someone from Universal the other week. I figure I'll let him in since he did say he's not selling anything. Remember he said "..not here to sell anything" and he's not from National Home Services so I thought it was ok. I didn't know at the time Universal and National were the same companies.

    • Steve says:

      FYI…it is a requirement that when a power vented water heater, which utilizes abs plastic pipe needs to be replaced the old plastic vent cannot be used. There is a new type of plastic vent approved for power vented water heaters and hi efficiency furnaces.

      Too bad that the old days of dealing with Consumers Gas are gone. In my opinion all of these new Water Heater Companies are the finest examples of deceit and lies.

  18. Walt says:

    To file a complaint against a gas marketer, electricity retailer or other market participant, contact the OEB Consumer Relations Centre between 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. at: 1-877-632-2727 (toll-free) or 416-314-2455

  19. Jen says:

    They came to our home just last week. I was away for a job interview (been lay off in 8 months my husband 4 months) when I came back home my husband told me about the new water heater from a company I never heard called National Home Services.

    The following day they came ready to install the water heater and I didn't even do my research yet. But from what I know is that we have 10 days to look at everything over and they should phone us to confirm, but that never happen.

    We called to to their office to cancel and they told us we had to pay $600 to uninstall it. What a big scam this is. I can't believe they are people doing this in Canada and I have no job atm. Because of the $600 they want from us, we thought we had no other choice.

    Until I found this article at thestar.com
    http://www.thestar.com/business/article/701345

    We are not the only one they did this too. Now we are filling a complaint to Ontario Energy Board and trying remove this tank and National Home Services from our life.

    Instead of playing by the rules these guys are looking at every single loop hole they can get. I'm taking this very personal….I hope they all be in jail one of these days.

  20. Marie says:

    Very interesting forum.

    We just received a "visit" from a National Home Service rep. I am wary of letting salesmen into our home, but he implied that he had been sent by Enbridge, and that the company was conducting a "green" campaign to replace old water heaters. Everything seemed legit until he asked to see our Enbridge bill; when I asked him why Enbridge had not supplied him with a list of customers and account numbers, I was given some gobbledygook about Direct Energy and water heaters.

    He assured us that we could take some time to think about it and would be able to cancel the installation (which I gather is true, from what I have read here and elsewhere), but insisted on filling out the paperwork anyway. He then made a call to book the installation, which could have been done as early as Monday (this being Friday, that is a pretty quick turn-around — and a very short cooling-off period).

    In retrospect, there were a number of warning signs, not the least of which was the assertion that we were currently paying a quarterly maintenance charge on our rental water heater so the extra $5.00 they wanted to charge us on a monthly basis would not be out of line. According to our rental company (we checked after the fellow left), we are paying a rental charge that does not vary from month to month.

    As they say, buyer beware….

    • Steve says:

      It's a shame that this forum is but a mere after thought related to Nationals deceiptful activities. I wish there was some way of getting the warning sign out to the masses. Do not entertain any water heater offer from anyone knocking on your door or thru telemarketing campaigns.

  21. Justin says:

    I must say that a lot of people seem to be quite angry at NHS for their business principles. I have to say that I have read almost all if not all the posts on this site and can only agree with a few posts. Firstly, one should indeed read all contracts before ever putting ink to paper, that's elementary. However if we are all believers in saving the planet and having a greener world then there are steps that need to be taken and NHS have taken that brave step in the right direction by offering a water heater that gives you better water quality and conserves on the use of natural gas. Should it be at a cost, YES, as nothing is ever free, how many of us at this time of economic instability can afford take a few grand out of our pockets and purchase outright a water tank that is energy efficient. NHS is offering it at a cost yes but why bicker and fight over an extra $4 or $5 bucks that goes towards a greener world. Come on guys, lets be fair, take the time to read the contract and understand what the offer is before signing the dotted line. At the end of the day we are all going to be winners, a greener world and a water heater thats worth quite a few grand in our homes for $5 bucks a mth.

  22. Marie says:

    Justin, if you have read all of the information available on this subject, you will be aware that not only is their water heater most likely not any more energy-efficient than an average model, but the full cost of a 15 year rental agreement is about $4000.00 — which is at least 4, maybe 5 times more than the cost of the tank.

    These companies are capitalizing on the green movement by taking advantage of environmentally sensitive citizens. No offense, but your response demonstrates how easily thay can get away with it.

    • Justin says:

      Marie, those who signed the contract without reading it properly have only themselves to blame. But correct me if am wrong, is NHS not running a business,and if it is a business and a service they are offering should they not be entitled to a profit? They have overheads and expenses associated with this service. Again I have to state that people ought to read the contracts properly before signing the dotted line. But there maybe a small percentile who could afford the luxury of spending a grand or two to purchase outright an energy efficient water heater. But what about those who can't? Then god forbid something should happen to your water heater and you have to call someone in to repair, maybe you fall into that percentile again that can afford to dish out $500 bucks to the repair man. NHS offers regular service and maintenance free of charge during the 15 year contract. But hey maybe $5 a month is too much to sacrifice for a greener tomorrow!

    • Marie says:

      You're right, Justin. Tomorrow will be very green — specially for NHS.

      It's not so much the product, but the underhanded way in which they manage to get themselves into people's homes. They imply that it is a mandatory tank replacement, when all they are doing is trying to poach someone else's customers. Does that sound ethical to you?

    • Steve says:

      Just for clarification purposes. The water heater that National uses is no different than any other natural or propane tank from an efficiency perpespective. They're claim to do performance checks on the water heater's is very misleading. There's nothing to check. The water heater either works or it doesn't.

  23. Joe says:

    Hi,

    I read the associated link somewhere that "the retailer MUST wait ten days before a signed deal can be finalized". How comes that mine was installed in the second day? since the water tank is already installed, I wonder if there is still a way out for me.

    Thanks,

  24. rich says:

    my tank was built in 1998 will direct energy replace it if i ask?

  25. Mark says:

    I understand this thread is mainly about National and although I have never had them visit my house and don't have any personal complaints I do have a confession, I am a sales agent for a water heater company called Reliance Home Comfort. I am not writing this to promote Reliance but rather to show people that although National does have many bad points these points are not necessarily transferable to other companies.

    Similar to how Direct Energy is the default water heater supplier in Enbridge areas, Reliance is the default supplier in any Union Gas areas. There are no contracts involved with us or with DE and the monthly rental rates are always within 20-30cents of each other (except for the tankless, I don't remember DE's tankless rate off the top of my head right now). Ultimately as far the as the customer is concerned they're paying roughly the same monthly rent, they get a brand new energy efficient water heater (however if the customer's current tank is within the last 4-5 years I will not replace it), and they get the first 3 months of the rental free. I never represent myself as affiliated with Enbridge in any way, and if any homeowner every wrongly assumes I am I always correct them and explain that Enbridge is just the gas utility and their water heater is most likely from DE which is indeed a competitor for Reliance. I explain with Reliance they will normally get a separate bill for the water heater however if they choose to keep it on the Enbridge bill there is an additional cost of $2/month as they charge us to have it on their bill.

    I am always honest with the homeowner and never pushy (it actually wastes a lot of time trying to push someone into something they don't wish to do). Ultimately I am trying to say that there is nothing wrong with door to door sales however there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, and unfortunately based on what I read here and from feedback I get from many of the homeowners more often than not I find NHS, Livclean, and admittedly some other Reliance agents as well has done it the wrong way. In conclusion all I will ask is that if someone knocks on your door hear them out, but if they are pushy or represent themselves as Enbridge than you have all the right to say no.

  26. spwgeo@hotmail.com says:

    Where on the contract does it say that there is a 15 year contract??? Please do tell

    • Kris says:

      Here is where:

      [quote]

      TERMS $ CONDITIONS

      2. Term and Payment

      … and for the useful life of the equipment…

      [/quote]

  27. sickofdumbpplwhobeli says:

    I ask again where is this talk of a 15 year contract/lease. YOU keep accusing NHS of scamming people left and right, and that's fine we live in a free country. I mean I can say that police force are power hungry and unjust, and crooked. Some of them are yes, but does that really mean the entire OPP is too? OK, you had a bad experience with one sales person from NHS, stop crying about it like a b***h, DO some actually research then blog about with your Evidence.

  28. sickofdumbpplwhobeli says:

    And FYI direct energy has already been sued by NHS for slander….if you actually listened to direct energy's home phone calls and radio ads, they don't mention the name National Home Services, because they can't. That's what we call slander, THAT is against the law. And for all you dummies who figure that NHS is just a scam, look up the word propaganda for me, why would DE put so much effort into speaking down about another company when they should be focusing on their own profits? If your into the stock market check out NHS stocks compared to DE…what a shame. If NHS is scamming so many people that they have numbers like they do then all you who were "scammed" shouldn't walk around like sheep, why not educate yourself on appliances around YOUR own house!

  29. sickofdumbpplwhobeli says:

    How could someone enter another persons home with out being allowed in? how could a water tank be replaced without a homeowners consent? That's called breaking and entering which is not happening. that video feed at the top of this page is talking about pushy sales tactics from ENERGY sales people. And I counted three of them there. So how can three people in the wrong account for an entire company. there are police officers who have been charged for doing unlawful things, but does that mean the whole police force is bad? of course there are bad apples with in the company, we live on planet earth, there will be INDIVIDUALS out to scam you. YOU however keep generalizing the entire company. I feel sorry for you infact, because your a sheep and your only writing this blog because one of the bad apples from NHS pulled the wool over your eyes. If the contract really was changed from what it was 8 months ago then there has to be someone who has a copy, because they do give copy's to all who sign up.

  30. rich says:

    "They came in because they claim they are related to our current provider or they made it sound like they were sent by the government" Yup the asshole that showed up at my door from NHS said he was representing the company that was currently providing us with our service, I had to ask him twice to make sure and when he understood that I knew what I was talking about it was only then he retracted. That is deceitful tactics. If he had been honest and told me he was competing with DE I would have listened to his spiel, then would have told him to fuck off nicely.

  31. open anal says:

    Well, to be honest, anyone that is still with DE(Direct Energy) is stupid because they dont service your water heater for anyone without a cost. At least NHS come out and maintain/clean your water heater every 5 years FREE of charge. Why? Because you pay a "rental fee" every month. Has anyone drained there water heater tank to see brown water come out, maybe after 5+ years of having your water heater? Didnt think so. Whoever is with there "current" provider still and will never get great service (DE). You have a water heater for 10, 15 or maybe 20+ years, does your "current" provider call you to maintain/clean or at least drain your water heater every 6 months? Nope. Why? Because you end up paying more $$$$ on your gas/energy bill, the burner in your water heater is covered with sediment and calcium, so it has to BURN MORE ENERGY!!! Which means you pay MORE MONEY!!! LOL!!! This shit is so funny. Stuff like Maintenance, flush, combustion ventilation check, carbon MONOXIDE reading(not DIOXIDE); Does DE or any current provider check these services for free? NOPE. "ENERGY STAR qualified water heaters use at least 5 percent less energy than conventional models" This is from a goverment website. So you would save money upgrading to a ENERGY STAR water heater. DUH!!! LOL!!!

    Here are some links everyone should read, and really please read. There are many more sites but I dont need to explain anymore, like i said this is way too funny. All the effort in finding little flaws that every company has, rather than finding out if anything they said is actually true…

    PS. THOM stop bitching and complaining. Your rental fee will go up and up every year anyway if you are with DE.

    http://www.newinhomes.com/articles/article.jsp?ar

    http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/business/manuf

    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=water_heat….

  32. william says:

    Energy Star Tanks Help The Enviroment Thats the Bottom Line if Direct Cares So Much Why Dont They Lower There rate on Existing Tanks and or Replace With a Goverment Approved Energy Star Tank That Saves The Enviroment and Our Childrens Future Enviroment ???

    • Steve says:

      The difference in tank performance between the so called higher efficiency tanks versus the "older" models is insignificant. Why should Direct Energy lower the cost on a tank that is working properly?

      Bottom line is, don't do business with National..

  33. Steve says:

    Life seemingly has a way of providing correction to those who are responsible in deliberately misleading people. National Home Service will either clean up their act or may very well go out of business. It will take thousands of people to get dooped into National's rhetoric to provide the income needed to keep the company going. I don't think that National will be successful in the long run.

  34. william says:

    There is no need to cus people who have comments Thom you are no better than NHS Telling people to F That And Go FXXK yoursself calling and sladering anmyone who has a different opinion !!! than you, YOU should be ashame of yourself

  35. william says:

    Now I am a criminal I dont Work For NHS I work For LivClean We rent Tanks As well ,We Are Green Friendly and offer our customers choice to reduce there carbon footprint is this so wroung as well . Mr Thom The Genieus Whos gonna save the world from Competition you are a lonely Fool

  36. paul says:

    Do some Research on LivClean WE Are The BEST our Rates are Only $6 dollars More But We Provide You With Superior Service , We also Fixed Gas and Electric Green and our cost is significantly higher but you save the planet is this so wroung ,I work and Make a meager living why are you trying to kill our Jobs

    • Steve says:

      I'm curious. What is it that your company does that makes it stand out as giving superior service? How are you saving the planet? Can you justify the higher charges? Not one of your Technicians have xray vision to know what's going on inside of the tank. The marketing ploy stating that a "free" inspection is done from time to time is a technical farce. The inspection isn't free, the cost to do so is built into the higher monthly charge.

  37. Ali says:

    thanks a million for sharing

  38. kyle says:

    All of these gas marketing companies are scum. I haven't almost fell victims to these pieces of $$%@ so many times. Luckily there is a cool off period of 10 days. Friends of mine have fallen victims to gas rates, electricity rates, water heaters, and protection plans. Bottom line is they all try to make money off of the ignorant.

    The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT needs to do something about these scum suckers. This should not be allowed to continue. These people come to your door, lie to your face and the consumer pays their bills for them. They are basically robbing people and stealing their hard earned money. Many have know idea what is happening. But if you read the numbers nine out ten you don't save anything, you spend.

    My water heater is currently with direct energy and I've had it since I bought my house because that's what it came with (5 years ago). Being a new home owner I didn't know any better. However my tank has broken down 5 times or so and is believe it or not currently not working right. It doesn't turn on when it's supposed to and there is rust in the hot water when the tank is drained. That is why I looked up NHS, as they have been to my door.

    The fact that my tank has broken down 5 times and every time they pretty much had to replace the control board and there is the rust in the tank makes me a little weary of buying my own tank, but with a warranty on it, it might not be that bad. However I'm not planning on staying in my new home forever so it might not be worth buying a new tank now. So here is my dilemma, but getting a tank from NHS on a 15 year contract will not do. I guess I will have to deal with direct energy, buy a new one, or look for another rental company, which I haven't found a legitimate one.

  39. energy wonk says:

    You've got this wrong:

    "Don't bother sending your complaints to the Ontario Energy Board (OEB). The CEO and President of Just Energy, Ken Hartwick (the same guy using the door to door sales for Universal Energy, US Energy Saving, National Home Services and a few other companies) he is also one of the Ontario Energy Association's Board of Directors read here."

    The OEA and OEB are not the same body. Ken Hartwick is on the board of the Ontario Energy Association (OEA) which is an industry trade association. The Ontario Energy Board (OEB) is a government agency and you can see who's on their board of directors here: http://www.oeb.gov.on.ca/OEB/Industry/About+the+O

    However, you are right that complaints about National Home Services shouldn't got to the OEB – but that's because the OEB doesn't regulate water heater rental agreements, not because of who sits on the board.

  40. Todd says:

    Thanks, they just showed up at my door, I didn't sign, and he became very agitated when I said I wouldn't sign until I checked out the company.

  41. Leon Sebek says:

    The agent from National Home Services just left and the first thing I did was Google them and found this forum. Subsequently, I called them to cancel the contract (as it states I can do in Section 7 on the back of the contract form). I spoke to someone who was reluctant to cancel the contract until the water heater was installed, saying that at that point, I had 10 days to cancel the contract at no cost to me, to which I pointed out that there was an account closure charge of $250 plus a disconnect charge of $200, plus an equipment return charge of $150, for a total of $600. Hw begrudgingly admitted that this was true but they could not afford to have people backing out of their contracts if there was nothing to hold them in. Finally, he asked what prompted me to cancel the contract, so I told him about the Marketplace segment on this forum. His response was that they had many competitors who want them to do poorly and who will stop at nothing to ensure they get bad publicity. I pointed out that Marketplace is a pretty honest program, to which he responded that if you have enough money, you can get anything on TV. In the end, he agreed to cancel my contract and mentioned that he would be putting it on the "pile" that will be forwarded to his boss.

  42. Steve says:

    I noticed during the Raptors game last night that "Just Energy" had purchased advertising space during the credits after the game. I see it as an expensive feeble attempt to legitimize their company as a trusted company to deal with. The best protection for the consumer is still word of mouth. Pass your experiances along to your friends. You'll be doing them a favour.

  43. X DE customer says:

    I was very interested to read what was on this site, until it came upon me….this is a site fully dedicated to whiners that are uneducated and unhappy that Direct Energy no longer has control of the market.Consumers deserve other companies offering better solutions. As well it is so obvious that the creator of this site is looking to advertise for Direct Energy…it could not be any more blatent. I will save my down time reading something geared for a higher IQ level….hmmmm how does old Dr Suess sound?This drivel just doesn't cut it.

  44. X DE customer says:

    I am honestly not surprised that you refuse to post my opinion. To clarify one thing…I typed in National Home Services onto my google browser and your site was the 2nd listed on the first page…maybe before you begin your rant…it would benifit those in such a public form if you were aware of all sides. You now fall into the category of sheep in my book….following mainstream media and the mud slinging huge corperations involve themselves in…I find it very difficult to reason with anyone that uses the term "brain fart" when rebutting a comment…a good debator you are not sir…good luck and don't run with scissors…(just a bit advice…I feel you need all the help you can get)

  45. Kyle says:

    Personally I could care less about direct energy. I use there tank and it sucks and I am looking into options to change it. I think the creator of the blog is doing a good job because the last thing people need is to get stuck into a bs contract. Like I almost did. The water heater rental industry is a scam as far as I'm concerned. Only in Ontario. Lol.

  46. Pam says:

    Hello everyone,

    I am planning to upgrade to a larger tank. After reading this forum, I called the National Home Services customer service at 1 877 673 5373 and spoke one of the representatives.

    Told her I had a few very straight forward questions and I wanted a streaight forward answers.

    My first question was:

    "Are we or are we not locked in a 15-year rental contract"

    The answer was:

    "Yes, you are!"

    My second question was:

    "If I need to cancel my contract for whatever reason, is it true that I will have to buy out the remainder of the contract?"

    The answer was:

    "Yes, unless you sell your house and the new owner agrees to carry on with your contract"

    My final question was:

    "Does it say clearly on the terms & conditions that we are locking in a contract for 15 years?, if yes where?"

    She refers to the back of the contract where it says Terms&Conditions and read me a part saying something like "if customer requests replacement in the 13th year of installation…" . Since I do not have the contract I am not sure how this part goes exactly (can anyone post the part?), but after listening to the representative reading me this part I still didn't get the idea that we are being informed clearly and openly that we will be locked in a 15-year contract.

  47. Jackie says:

    Is a phone call sufficient enough for cancellation? They haven't installed anything but I did sign the agreement. I've called to cancel but I want to make sure that's the end of my contract with NHS.

    • jackie says:

      The representative I spoke to didn't provide a cancellation number. I guess I should make sure to get that.

  48. johhny says:

    ok chinese retard

    the reason 2 buy shit at the door is 2 help the economy

    the reason its free is beacuase it gains costomers

    if someone owns more then one company they are successfull not a broke bitch like you

    finally, have u heard of energy star? it guarentees savings

  49. TC says:

    Thanks to the author for writing this info.

    To Baulzy who wrote:
    National Home Services replaces old water tanks with energy star rated, more efficient ones free of charge.

    Thanks for the laugh. The NHS guy that I just booted off my porch (sadly not before allowing him to see my watertank as I too, was duped to thinking he was some sort of government agency official), told me that my water tank was not energy star and was in dire need of replacement.

    My reply: "That's bullshit, this tank is 8 months old". That's when I caught onto the ruse.

    Way go to around killing the environment to in search of prey. He actually tried to justify the environmental reasons for creating all this waste by getting a new tank.

    He even had me confused for a moment.

    **** * ***** ** ******.

    Thanks again for authoring this post Keyframe5.

    • undercover says:

      I work For NHS. well as to say i am contracted by them only like 10% of the people that work there arent on contract. we get $75 if we can get you to switch. dont do it even if you are with reliance. our tanks are made in the USA. reliance only costs 40 buck to get out of your contract ours is 600. Direct energy is free. the piping that needs to be replaced that sticks out of the side of your house marks you as an easy sale

  50. waterheater guy says:

    hahahah you guys are all sheep

    i love my job

    you will save money , just sign HERE…

    HAHAHHAHAHAHAH

    i am laughin all the way to my bank

    • Stephen says:

      One day my friend, your bravado will catch up with you. You won't be laughing then. To the rest of the readers of this site the best thing to do is to tell others and warn them of the type of people such as waterheater guy that NHS employ.

  51. heyB says:

    Yes, I got suckered in. The first time NHS came knocking I smelled a scam. He said he was here to replace my water heater at no charge. It was a government program to become energy efficient and I got some info in my gas bill about it.

    I declined and he got angry saying I had to have this. I just said no thanks.

    A couple weeks later, I just got home from a 10 hour shift and NHS comes knocking. This guy was a smooth talker and I let him in and run his pitch. No costs were mentioned, nothing on the contract had any prices. This was a "free" tank replacement. I mean, why wouldn't you want it. He's with my gas company right? Doing a much needed replacement at no cost and I'll save $50 a year in efficiency!

    Well, NHS calls a few mins later to confirm everything and they say blah blah blah… $25/month on your bill. I double check my current rental is $16 so that's almost $10 more. I do a little googling and find some news stories and this blog about this company.

    My tank is 10 years old, I wouldn't mind getting a new one, maybe a more efficient one. But I feel I got lied to and misled. $25/month +3% yearly increase for 15 years is too much.

    I canceled 20 mins later. They didn't press to hard, I just said you aren't associated with Enbridge and I was misinformed. I am going to call again in a day to double check they really did cancel. I don't need them showing up with a tank and saying I have to pay anything.

    As people have said. No one comes knocking door to door to save you money.

  52. gpa says:

    Just had a salesman at our house — very plausible and fast talking at first — gave the impression he was with our gas company — looked at the bill — blah blah blah — win-win – so I went on the Net, found this site and others — and told him to leave, which he did, politely — smells like a scam. Years ago I sold encyclopedias door to door, and smelt a rat.

    Energy efficient water heaters — good idea — this stuff smells.

    • SJH says:

      Calling it a scam would be an improvement in NHS's practises. Maybe NHS is so far down the road in they're tactics that they'll never be able to become a worthwhile contender.

  53. Carol says:

    Thanks to the above person for the information provided about National Home Services. I did not realize that there was a 15 year contract with a penalty if the contract is broken. I was able to cancel my appointment. I was told the fee would be $20.70, until I read the contract and realized that the amount does not include tax and is subject to annual increases. Direct Energy does increase the rates also, but at least there is no contract or penalty. Do not sign with this company.

  54. james says:

    Pat Foran's contact info is via His email address as follows. alert at patforan dott com

  55. richard says:

    gonna tell anyone some facts, national home service has two different type of hot water tank supply, one is 15 years but they gurantee the rent will not go up for 15 years too, they set the rent $2 more then direct energy ,but direct energy increase their annual rental charge by limit of 5%.the other rental water tank from national does no have contract,rent is same as direct energy,but more than reliance, the annual rent also will increase a limit of 3.6% which is less then direct energy, and if you wanna cancel, after 1 year, no any panenty.because i changed my tank with national, i choose the second one. therefor i know

    • Steve says:

      Point for clarification. The rental water heater that you have which is billed from Direct Energy is owned by a publicly traded Company called the Consumers water heater Income fund or CWIF. CWIF sets the rental rates. Direct Energy is under contract to service the tank. A 3% increase of your present rental tank serviced by DE does not work out to the huge difference that NHS blows out of proportion. On a conventional # 50 tank, I believe that the present rental rate from DE is approx $11.00 per month. NHS is approx.. $17.00 which lasts for the life of the tank. A 3% increase of the $11.00 rental rate is around 35 cents. It will take a heck of along time for present rental rate to come close to NHS monthly term. I'm bet a pretty penny that when the NHS tank packs it in say 13 years the new rate for the replacement tank will increase. Think of your water heater as a commodity. Do your homework before deciding who's going to get your hard earned money.

  56. david says:

    Any water heater company want to make money from their customer including Reliance. I try to cancel my 7 years water heater rental from Reliance, and they want to charge me disconnect fee and pick up their own water heater. I removed the water heater by myself and drop their water heater to their place, and they still want to charge me $40 for closing my account fee, and they said it's new rule. I did not sign any contract with them, and don't understand why they want me pay more to them. I tell them why not charging me $400 for closing my account since they can say whatever they want without my agreement. I will not pay any more to Reliance.

  57. Jay says:

    I had a guy from NHS come out to my house yesterday. I just moved in last month and he identified himself as someone from the water heater rental company. He asked if he can come in and take a look at the water heater.

    I led him downstairs into the basement where he looked at the heater for about 5 seconds and said it needs to be replaced.

    I asked why and he said the usual dribble about how its not an energy star unit. And he added that it was too old and at the end of its life. We took a look at the tag and it said it was a unit which was installed in September of 09…

    So I told him "I see it was installed about a year ago and its working just fine" to where he replied how Reliance has raised monthly fees by 8% last year and NHS won't do it by more than 3.7% annually.

    That's when I figured out he wasn't from Reliance. So I said no thanks, and motioned for him to leave.

    When I said no thanks, he replied "What do you mean no thanks?"

    I said I did not want it. But he would not leave. He again started with the same speech about how I could be saving money monthly with the NHS unit. Again I replied no thanks. So he said OK, here is some paperwork to fill out just to let my superiors know I was here.

    I looked at the paperwork and started reading it, he tried to hurry me along. I checked off those 3 areas and handed him the paper back.

    Then he used my cellphone to call NHS and schedule an appointment for a technician to come out and look at the water heater. He assured me that's all the technician would do.I agreed.

    Then last night while trying to fall asleep I asked myself why he wanted a void cheque when the technician came…direct deposit.

    The technician is supposed to be here today between 12-4. At 11am I called NHS and asked the girl on the phone what the technician was coming out for. She told me to uninstall my water tank and replace it with one of theirs. Again I said no thanks and she canceled the technician.

    That NHS door to door salesman lied to my face after me saying NO a number of times. At the time I just wanted him out of my house because it was clear he was not leaving without a signature.

    Anyways NHS made me buy 2 "NO SOLICITING" signs for my house…

    • Steve Hume says:

      If Jay or anyone who has had a fraudulant experiance reads this message, please get in touch with Pat Foran using the link found at the beginning of this page.

    • RichRich says:

      Another scumbag came by my door the other day, this time it was a young girl maybe 20, says she is responsible for all the energy star upgrades in our area, then she goes on to say that most of my neighbours have already signed up and upgraded to energy star, I then ask her which company she is with and she says NHS, so I ask her why she gave me a misleading statement like her company was responsible for all of the energy star water heater upgrades in the neighbourhood, i think she was stunned cause nothing came out of her mouth, I thenn tell her she should be embarrassed to work for such a scum bag scam company like NHS and she just scampered away in the darkness (didn't visit any other neighbours), I hate scammers!

    • Sinny says:

      Unfortunately some of the workers are jerks like that.

      I'm sorry you got hit by an idiot.

      Do you by any chance live in Windsor or Ingersoll or in the area?

  58. Jim P says:

    I had a water heater that I could see was an old water heater. I was renting from Reliance Energy in the Windsor area. I phoned the company and asked if they could take a look at my water heater as I felt it was old and needed to be replaced.

    Their response was that it's their policy not to replace a water heater until it breaks..if it's still running they won't replace it. They could however upgrade the heater to a larger unit which will increase my monthly payments.

    My water heater as it rurns out was close to 20 years old. When a National Services rep. came to my door I was more than ready to switch companies. I even called the Reliance to let them know I was switching. I told them National Services were going to deliver the old heater right to Reliance, and they gave me the removal number they said they would need to have.

    Now 3 months later Reliance is refusing to accept delivery from this company and turning around and expecting me to continue making rental payments. Their reason being they do not have the space to return the old heaters. Where would they put it if they picked it up themselves?

    Now Reliance is planning to take me to a creditor to get there money. I was paid up till the end of January even though I had the Heater removed in mid October. They just want 3 more months rent even though they know the situation.

    I'm convincing everyone I know to switch companies however if I had to do it all over I would probably just paid the romoval fee from Reliance, save the head ache. I'll be happy when this is over with.

    • Steve says:

      In response to Jim.

      Sorry to hear your difficulty. I would refuse to pay the rental fee to Reliance. Make sure your documentation is in order. The administration costs for Reliance I'm sure would be more than the rental fee's "owing". The Ontario Energy Board would like to hear about it. If you do send OEB a letter CC Reliance. Next step could be to get in touch with Pat Foren who's contact info is on the cover page of this site. He might get in touch with Reliance. If you do contact Pat cc Reliance. The Just Energy brand is somewhat of a feeble attempt to establish a legitimate Company. The marketing campaigns I'm sure are underwritten from the coffers from Reliance. At the end of the day sad to say, it's still buyer beware but in Ontario we should be able to have some sense of Consumer confidence that there are recognizable watch dogs out there.

      Good Luck and don't give up…I'm sure it will be worth the effort. P.S. the notion of reduced energy costs with the new water heaters is overstated. You may see a slight decrease in gas consumption over the year but I emphasize slight.

      • Steve says:

        One more thing.

        I know that National Home Service have installed a little over 100,000 water heaters. What percentage of those 100,000 customers are still confused over what happened or feel duped would be interesting to know. Any feedback from new National customers would make for a helpful read.

    • Jim P says:

      Thanks Steve!

      I can't say that I feel I had been duped by NHS, the rep I had was pretty straight up and went over the contract quite well. He even mentioned if I move in the next few years and the new owners wanted nothing to do with this company I could still be held paying the rental fee. I've been in this house for 10 years and don't plan on moving so this was not an issue.

      I never even thought that the possibility of Reliance refusing delivery of their own unit would be an option. This could go on indefinately if I pay in 3 months they just want the next 3 months rent. Your right we're only talking about $30…that's not the issue.

      I guess the bigger question is why are so many people so quick jump ship to NHS? Makes you wonder about the service they were getting before.

      Thanks again for the advice and I will use it.

  59. Jason says:

    Hey,

    So i worked for this company for 2 days… thats right, 2 days.

    i went to their brainwashing hiring process where they never mentioned to any of the "agents in training" what the company was about, what we were going to be doing, etc. they told us to come back tomorrow to job shadow a team leader and see what we would be doing, and to dress in Business Casual clothing, meanwhile.. they were sending us out into the blistering cold weather, -20, to walk around and "shadow" this team leader and see how to scam these people into signing up.

    then the next day, we signed our "independant contractor" forms, and off we went to do it all by ourselves, again..but this time in NHS uniforms, complete with laminated picture name cards.

    i was dropped off in Weston and Lawrence neighbourhood at 11am, and was not informed i'd be there ALONE until 10pm that night, i found this out later. i did sign one person up, and since i kept their number in my binder i called them later that night to advise them to cancel their agreement NOW, they did, thankfully.

    after getting frozen after 2 hours of being out there in the cold, i went into a store to get warm, and to search up more info on this company on my phone. found a lot of info about them on one type of site – SCAM reporting sites. after reading thru many of them, i decided to call it a day. i called head office where i was dispatched from and where my car was still parked at, 40 minutes away by car, and told them i had to go because my mother was in the hospital because she fell at work due to her diabetes and that i needed to get there now. they told me "well jump on a bus then and hopefully we'll see u back tomorrow morning at 7am"

    i told them to send a car for me because i needed to get back to my car there and i didn't have cash on me to get on a bus because my wallet is in my car.

    they said – well….see if u can call a friend to come pick you up, or call a cab back to the office.

    that was THE last straw. i called my friend, and he picked me up, i went back got changed into my own clothes, threw their uniform back at them and did not return at all.

    also, about the 15 year contract part – they won't disclose that to you even if the customer asks about it over the phone, because i told the lady to ask about it when she called back to cancel, and they didn't say that she would be in a contract at all.

    i'm pretty sure by all these laws this company is breaking can't they be sued or shut down???? something needs to be done about this "company"

    • Steve says:

      Jason great note. How you were treated does not surprise me. National is still responsible to ensure that who ever is representing them in the field follows strict codes of conduct. The complaints are continuing. National is not stepping up to the plate to cleanup their image. All I smell is greed at any price.

      Jason make sure that you pass your experiance along to those you know. We can't give up. National's day is coming..

      • justburned says:

        Appreciate the honesty their Jason and totally agree with Steve's sentiments…i hope NHS's day are numbered and the complaints only seem to rise, im a little surprised by the BBB rating. They only respond by phone and will not reply in writing. They may produce a good product but their avenue for acheiving their contracts are misleading and deceptive to say the least. I really dont believe many people would sign up if all the terms of the agreement were fully disclosed and that is my beef with this company. I was told of a 15 year warranty not a lease.Im hoping my complaint via MCS will hold water and i will be done with this company once and for all. Their recent partnership with JE speaks volumes to me. The fact that past employees talk of their unpleasant experiences with NHS is very telling, i hope, the ministry, OEB are listening. Is it a coincidence water heater rentals 2010 are in the top 5 complaint list. Something needs to be done.

  60. William Robert says:

    I just checked the BBB and what a scam that website is, they give this company an A- rating and then claim to be unbiased.

  61. Pierre says:

    I just got a visit from a lady from National Home Services (Feb. 21, 2011). She claimed her company was contracted by Enbridge to verify is the water heater was up to code. She told me I need white PVC vent pipes instead of black ones (which may or may not be true; I have to check), and then tried to see if the tank was Energy Star rated. While I do have an energy-efficient tank, it may not be Energy Star because the program may have started later than 2005, the year the tank was installed. She proceeded to say that would create problems of sufficient supply (it doesn't).

    The whole thing sounded very fishy – especially since Enbridge customer service is closed today for a holiday.

    • Steve says:

      Another frustrating story. Enbridge might appreciate receiving a phone call from you. They may want the chance to respond to the misrepresentation. On a technical note, when an existing power vented water heater needs to be replaced the black plastic venting needs to be replaced with a new class of venting which is white in colour.

    • Pierre says:

      Update: I did check with Enbridge, and sure enough, National Home Services was NOT acting on behalf of Enbridge (NHS is just one of several companies that can have their bills collected by Enbridge on their behalf). It was therefore misrepresentation on her part. The customer service person at Enbridge said they're just trying to push their own water heaters. Surely, if they have good products and fair prices, they don't need to misrepresent themselves. Could they not just grow their business simply by offering better deals than their competitors?

      • Pierre says:

        Update 2: I did file the complaint form with the Ministry of Consumer Services. Whether that will do anything remains to be see, but at least I tried.

        By the way, NHS's terms for rental are not as bad as the new terms for renting from Direct Energy (see http://residential.directenergy.com/EN/Home-Servi… DE also has contracts for the life of the equipment, and does not allow cancellation unless one buys the heater! (I'm glad I purchased my water heater!)

  62. makala says:

    Energy Review:

    i personally think this is propiganda. why? because of the amount of time and effort you have put into bad mouthing nhs. why dont we discuss your current service provider. direct energy. do you not rent from them? so what is the difference if you are paying about 4 bucks more for an energy efficient brand new tank while still paying your rental plus you receive a yearly free maintance? let me know how many times direct came in to maintain(drain) your tank? according to tssa your to drain your tank at least once every 5years. have they done that service for you? as far as im concerned they charge for maintainance and to switch your black pvc pipings direct charges the customers according to the length of pipping the customer needs. i just switched from direct to national and im satisfied with the effort they put into gaining my trust. and even more satisfied that they maintain my appliance. we are adults and are responsible for anything we sign. so i definately think that thom you are a paid agent from direct bad mouthing other potentially better companies.

    • Energy Review says:

      It is funny how you guys make these snide remarks regarding the consumer being paranoid or being a propaganda.

      So you’re telling me if I sign with National Home Services there is NO:

      – long-term contract
      – cancellation fee (apx. $750+ within 5 years and $350+ after 5 years)
      – If I sold my home the new home owner must carry over the contract
      – It is cheaper to get my own water heater tank

      How is that propaganda? If I call National Home Services now and ask about the long-term agreement. You’re telling me they will say that’s not true and it is a propaganda?

      People fell iffy with 1 year contract, let alone 5 years or more.

      "It is about the sleazy sale tactics use by some National Home Services sale men. This is about being properly informed and at least has the opportunity to make an informed choice."

      For your Information, Diect Energy did come to drain the tank at least once, but we had to call them. All you have to do is call DE to make an appointment.

      The replacing of the black pvc is not MANDATORY, only new tanks need them. Older tanks with pvc are still safe.

      we are adults and are responsible for anything we sign.

      It's an absolutely valid point, except for the fact that this wasn't just a brochure you got in the mail. This was a real-live person giving you information, barely providing any information to and wanting you to basically change your water heater tank.

      so i definately think that Energy Review you are a paid agent from direct bad mouthing other potentially better companies.

      LOL, now that’s propaganda. This website is not affiliate with Direct Energy in any way, why would we write this about Direct Energy?

      We're just regular consumers wanting to informed others so they can make an informed decision.

      Again, if you’re happy with National long-term agreement, cancellation fees, then GO GO GO sign with National Home Services.

      • William Robert says:

        Just a tip. Don't bash another persons spelling and then submit your post without proofreading it, with your misspellings that makes you seem like a hypocrite and maybe a little untrustworthy.

        The fifteen year agreement is something that I can not find anywhere else, and I have a copy of the "Program Guide", or as the person who gave it to me said "The terms and conditions". I do see a part about five years or you need to pay the installation fees, or the part about replacing the tank anytime you like after thirteen years nothing about "fifteen years" like people here keep spouting off about so you are just as bad as the people that you call liars or cheats or even just misinformed.

        The company probably has had some bad apples in the bunch, spoiling it for the rest of their company by lying, or maybe not knowing what they are talking about. But in any business people that lie and/or don't have the correct information usually do not get too far.

        I am calling them tomorrow, actually I am going to register online, and getting a tankless water heater. Even though I have been told (by the agent himself, and he makes more by giving out a tankless) that the rental cost is much more than I would save on my energy usage.

        I asked many questions because I was unsure of wanting to switch companies and the agent was understanding and told me to call his personal cell-phone when I was ready or if I had any questions. I doubt if a scam-artist would give out their cell phone number to every person that was scammed by them.

  63. makala says:

    onemore thingi just checked the better businessbereau and NHS has a A- rating. whata high ratingforscamers huh? especially from the BBB.(sarcasm)

  64. TL says:

    well quite the NHS bashing goin on here!! shame on you who have become sheeple. I am a witness that NHS is very professional with their approach at the door. In fact i was visiting a friend earlier today and an agent knocked on her door . After explaining clearly that she was representing NHS a canadian company btw.!!!! my friend then let her in to inspect the hot water tank that my friend thought (or was lead to believe) was only 2 years old . The NHS agent honestly pointed out 2 things

    1/ that the tank was actually manufactured in 1995!!! not just 2 yrs ago. therefore its been refurbished and rented to my friend as a new tank. LIE #1

    2/ even tho the agent did not ask to see her acct with reliance home comfort

    my friend wanted to see how much she in fact had been paying for this tank she has been renting UP TIL NOW . We all discovered that reliance had been over charging her

    Now she only has a basic 40 gal tank and the NHS agent told her she would only have to pay $12.49/month+ tx for her new energy star tank from her company.

    and she would get 2months free as well and also 2months credit for each person that she refers!! My friend was paying 65.00/3months for this tanks she thought was new from reliance for a lil over 2 yrs now. So who's doing the shafting??? Seems VERY CLEAR to me and my friend it isnt NHS

    that is being dishonest here today. Thx to that agent my friend who is a widow also will not be taken by a company like reliance any more . ps my friend almost didnt let her in the door but we were both curious since we have never heard of NHS until today. Im glad we heard her out first hand and she was nothing like how some of you described here . she was honest and not pushy at all and answered all our questions and explained things thoroughly . Just goes to show ya that not EVERYONE AT THE DOOR is there to rip you off sometimes they can show you who is really ripping you off and give you something much better or at least what you deserve . I will recommend NHS to my friends and family just based on what i actually witnessed for myself today.

    and WE WILL NOT BE CANCELLING unless they give us good reason to .

    • Energy Review says:

      well quite the NHS bashing goin on here!! shame on you who have become sheeple.

      There is no bashing, its freedom of speech, nor this is a propaganda and there is no shame for not wanting to be lock in with a multi years contract for a water heater tank.

      If you love to rent out your appliances so much, you should lease your MICROWAVE in a multi year’s contract with cancellation fee.

      “The NHS agent honestly pointed out 2 things
      1/ that the tank was actually manufactured in 1995!!! not just 2 yrs ago. therefore its been refurbished and rented to my friend as a new tank. LIE #1
      2/ even tho the agent did not ask to see her acct with reliance home comfort”

      Not all tanks are refurbished and not everyone need their tank to be replace, even tanks that are not star energy rated.

      If you know those terms and conditions, that’s fine. You go ahead and do what you want as long as you know what you’re signing into because alot people don’t.

    • BigM says:

      So, TL, you "all" disovered how much your friend had been paying? That must mean that your friend showed the salesperson her gas bill. That was our first indication that the person who came to our door was not sent by Enbridge — otherwise he would have already had our account number. Classic underhanded tactic, and our first clue that there was misrepresentation.

      Did your friend read all the fine print on the back of the contract? Did the sales person explain that, in addition to the monthly rental fee, there would also be an extra maintenance fee?

      Just out of curiosity, how quickly was the water heater installed? Did they rush to put it in the next day, or within less than a week? If so, then I am sure your friend will not be cancelling — since it will cost her at least $600.00 to do so.

      • William Robert says:

        TL has not said anything about the agent claiming to be from Enbridge, and if you had read the post you would realize that the water heater has not been installed yet as the post was from yesterday. Just show me any proof that the cost is six hundred dollars to have it removed. I have read the terms and conditions thoroughly and have found nothing that implies that, though if you were looking for only that I am sure there are some things that you could misunderstand just to prove your point (politicians and political pundits do the exact same thing). I am reading the "Program Guide" one more time before I let the installers come but I can't say that there is anything to fear so far. If one of these people comes to your door let them in, but before you sign anything ask them to let you read the terms and conditions. The agents are not supposed to leave it with you but should allow you to read it before you sign anything.

    • William Robert says:

      One more thing, the agent asked me about three times to make sure I knew he wasn't from my current hot water heater provider or Enbridge. So he must have really wanted me to think that I was going through with a program sponsored by my current provider and my gas company.

      • BigM says:

        From the Residential Water Heater Rental Agreement (torn up by the salesman but left in our recycling bin – fall of 2009):

        Clause 7 states that the following charges will apply upon Termination of the Rental Agreement:

        "(i)our account closure charge ($250),

        (ii)if we remove the Equipment, our disconnect charge ($200) or, if the Equipment is dosconnected, removed and returned by your own qualified contractor, our return charge ($150)

        (iii)any charge imposed on you pursuant to this Agreement for unreasonable or excessive wear or use of the Equipment;

        (iv)if the Agreement is terminated within the first 5 years after the installation date, the total of all "installation and Other Charges" described on the reverse side of this Agreement regardless of whether these charges were waived at the time of installation."

        According to my interpretation, the homeowner would be on the hook for at least $400.00 (or $450 if National removes the tank), plus — if the tank is removed within the first 5 years — the installation charges (either $450 CV or $600 PV — no explanation of what those codes mean). This was the case in 2009 — the contract wording may have been amended or modified since then.

    • Steve says:

      Consider yourself fortunate that you seemed to have had a positive experiance. If all of the door knockers worked to the same appropriate representation this lineage of comments may not even exist.

      • William Robert says:

        I don't think that I should consider myself fortunate to have a positive experience, I am just the only person on this site that has said anything about it. Many people are negative and only want to complain, there are likely quite a few homes that have had National hot water heaters with zero problems in the sale and installation. But none of those people are writing about it on this forum.

      • Steve says:

        This email chain represents an enormous number of people who have been lied to. My own Sister was lied to. The NHS rep who knocked on Her door said that they "were from Enbridge". I have had 4 NHS reps say the same thing to me. The wording of the contracts have changed in a big way due to the number of complaints which if added together to this chain of emails would be oppresive. If NHS is such a fair company to deal with why would they need to change and attempt to remove the blatant confusion of the wording in the contract?

      • Energy Review says:

        @William Robert

        I don’t think that I should consider myself fortunate to have a positive experience, I am just the only person on this site that has said anything about it…

        This is not about I’m right or you’re right. It's about being informed to make an informed decision.

        If you’re happy with a long term contract for a water heater tank that might cost you 4-5 times more, along with cancellation fee, and all the other terms and conditions.

        If you're happy with that, then that's your choice.

        Crying out loud, we're promoting National Home Services! Just make sure you understand their terms and conditions!

        Here are some of the positive comments you missed:

        I work for this company, and after reading this just would like to straighten a few things out.
        National Home Services replaces old water tanks with energy star rated, more efficient ones free of charge…

        Baulzy

        I have too disagree with you guys oin this forum. I was with Direct energy for 7 years and they never maintained the tank I had and yet they gave me an annual increase of almost 4% a year…

        Bigman

        What is everyone whining about?
        1. Don’t sign contracts before you read them.
        2. If you don’t like the terms of the contract or what is being offered, decline it.
        3. If you don’t want to rent a major appliance, buy it – from whatever company you want…
        Elaine

        If you actually read all the comments you will find more people talk positively about their experience.

  65. TL says:

    WELL i just came back on here to check and see what else was posted since i posted last to find my post gone??? seems to me anything posative about NHS is removed …….im not surprised ….so no need to waste my time here any further ..i suspect anything good to report will just get deleted anyways ………have fun! Im enjoying my new tank and services that i got for no extra cost

  66. TL says:

    oops my bad…….found my comment from last month …lol oh and no i dont plan on moving for a long time so im not worried about cancellation fees cuz at least i wont experience any increases above 3.5 % annually unlike the other companies charge whatever they want whenever they for whatever they want . at least i got that capped with NHS. AND not sure if it has been mentioned i can buy the tank at any time with no penalties which i plan on doing after my first FREE service @ 5 yrs old tank. It was explained to me that the buyout at that time is around $500.00…..I dont see what the problem with that is considering they are paying for everything upfront

    1/ FREE REMOVAL OF MY OLD TANK

    2/ 2 MONTHS FREE plus anyone who gets a tank that i know = 2months free per person

    3/ I also got a FREE PVPIPE JOB MINE WAS OUT OF CODE….. now i dont have to worry about being charged $400-1000.00 to get that done by someone else as it is mandatory with any new tank install anyways.

    4/FREE INSTALL OF THE NEW TANK.

    Ive saved ABOUT $600.00 at least already and now im going to save on my gas bill also. and i will always have hot water and a tank that is working efficiently. I have no complaints yet. so far so good

  67. TL says:

    @ ENERGY REVEIW…………

    "I love how you mentioned it’s “a canadian company btw.!!!!” – I’m a consumer and I don’t really care if something made in Canada or overseas – have you check the tanks, it might be made outside Canada."

    maybe i should go work for them as a salesman then eh?? LOL I dont have time to argue any further to be honest / my friend was ripped off by RELIANCE and im sure she hasnt been the only one. IN fact some ppl have 14 yr. old tanks and called them and they wouldnt replace them with energy star tanks . that's pretty much all the proof i needed to switch to NHS since i am renting and cant afford to buy one now anyways.Its quite obvious that RELIANCE only cares about getting the rental $$ and whatever else they can get from renters for extra services to feed into the american economy from us canadians who dont seem to care I CARE CUZ I BUY CANADIAN WHENEVER I CAN.OUR ECONOMY NEEDS A BOOST FROM US CANADIANS oh and the tanks are made here in canada btw in FERGUS ONT., CANADA I CHECKED.

  68. TL says:

    "Tips says: July 27, 2010

    I happen to work for National home services and I plan on doing a bit of clarification on all of these statements. Were not a racket,were not out to scam you. We are hard working Canadian citizens trying to make a living. Were all young students, parents, supporting members of households, everyday normal people doing our job.

    As for not knowing our product, Those of us that have had enough training, we know that product inside and out. Newer agents cant answere all those questions, because they dont know it yet.We know alot of information that takes time to learn and implement. Did you know all the nuances when you all started jobs? NO! You have to learn same as we do.

    YES! It is a long-term contract, so is RELIANCE! our main competitor in my area. YES! There are cencellation fees for ripping out our tank prematurely. There are cancellation fees for breaking EVERY contract early. What happens when you pay off your mortgage early? YOU PAY FEES! You R.S.P.s are the sameway, you spend that money early you pay fees. Marriage is another example. Thats not an unknown fact.

    I realise that the Energy Star tanks have only been available since January 2009, and an experienced agent tells you this, but competators wont take the tank out untill you call and say its broken. I have knowlege and personal experience that RELIANCE wont change your old tank out for an ENERGY STAR tank free of charge because “your old tank is energy efficient” DIRECT ENERGY says the same thing.

    You say the printout is “supposedly government mandated” LOOK IT UP! ENERGY STAR IS RATED BY THE GOVERNMENT! THE GUARUNTEE IS FROM THEM THAT YOULL SEE SAVINGS NOT US!!!

    The PVC PIPING upgrade is because building code changed as of 2007. Building code was changed because ABS piping (Black) has a tendancy to crack and leak carbon monoxide into the homes, resulting in headaches and nausia when running the hot water.

    The “claim” on dirty water is also true. Think about it from a basic standpoint. Your tank is metal lined inside and out. You can usually see lime deposite on the copper piping. Why? because metal corrodes it. the same thing happens to your metal tank. It corrodes and breaks down and where is all that sediment going? To the bottom of your tank! Your pilot light is at the bottom of your tank, MEANING you burn more gas to heat your water as your metal tank ages because you have to heat the sediment as well as the water.Its basic people, SIMPLE SCIENCE! WATER ERODES METAL!

    Your tank is seven Years old? YOUR TANK IS OUTDATED! Yes your piping is out of date. Are you required to change it with the tank you have? NO! But to install a new tank, whether now with National, or when it breaks with Reliance or DE, you WILL need to be brought up to building code. Same with the Chimney Liners for those of you with CV units.

    Think about it. Your car is 7 years old, is it as fuel efficient as the new fusion hybrid? NO!!!! Does the government force you to cahnge to the fusion though? NO! Its optional, so is the EnergyStar program. Try reading some of the info we leave you when you sign.

    As for the tanks that are taken out, We return the tanks to the current supplier, Be it Reliance or DE. It gets sent to the warehouse (Reliance is 3 warehouses over). Reliance puts the newer tanks in peoples homes for replacement. The owned tanks are recycled to make the new tanks.

    We are a green company, for every 5,000 people in our E-Billing program we reduce over 3,000 lbs of our carbon footprint per annum. We are also only installing Energy Star products, which also reduce the carbon footprint.

    You use less gas, whether you save $4 or $12 per month, your still saving money, and the environment. How many people went hybrid with their cars in order to save money on gas, as well as helping the environment by reducing emmissions… Our city busses did the same thing.

    As for people getting the Reliance call, THEY ARE OUR MAIN COMPETATOR! Does pepsi tell you not to drink coke? What happens when Rogers calls a Bell customer and offers a better deal? You switch companies! We are a Canadian company, try to give people an Energy Star tank, for the SAME PRICE (We pricematch Reliances prices), two months rent free, a $50 mastercard, we cover the cancellation fee, the tank removal and return, offer preventative maintenance (whens the last time someone came to bring your tank back to manufacturers standards?). WERE JUST THE CANADIAN COMPETATOR WITH WITH A BETTER PROGRAM, BRINGING MONEY BACK FROM AN AMERICAN HEDGE-FUND!"

    found this on one of ur many pages …i couldnt agree more with this!! I AM CANADIAN

    • Steve says:

      Your comments about carbon monoxide and building code changes are very misleading as usual. If the abs pipe is so dangerous to existing customers there would have been the biggest automatic recall to change out all existing abs venting wether the tank needs to be changed or not, ever put in place. The inside of the tank is sprayed with ceramic powder in order that when heated during a bake cycle, will turn into a ceramic glaze. The copper pipe will not corrode. Any build up of lime deposit if present will only calcify. The code requirement to change out the abs for the approved venting material is a manufacture's requirement not a building code issue. In Canada, CSA is the agency used to approve the water heater operation and installation specs. The main issue with your Company are the imbellished comments which NHS supports regarding safety and potential savings. NHS will always be a Company with a tarnished history as long as it continues to exist. Hopefully this internet site will continue to be of some help to those who will do their homework before signing a contract with someone they've never heard of before. Your company is guilty of oppressive sales tactics used towards unsuspecting home owners. Put your time into ensuring that NHS will enforce truthful interactions with potential customers. Your response of defending your company is to be admired. I don't think you've won any one over.

    • tl says:

      GSW TANKS ARE MADE RIGHT HERE IN FERGUS,ONT. CANADA

  69. TL says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIGbEGbnvy8 heres some facts in this video………..obviosly you dont get all the facts from ONE PLACE on the internet .

  70. TL says:

    http://www.johnwoodwaterheaters.com/support/techs
    THIS WEBSITE IS STRAIGHT FROM THE MANUFACTURERS OF HOT WATER HEATERS HERE IN ONTARIO…. GSW TAKE A GOOD READ FROM THE PROFESSIONALS WHO ACTUAL MADE THE TANKS. .

    • Steve says:

      Again Mr TL if all of the NHS door knockers simply presented accurate facts to the customer without hiding behind manipulative sales tactics, there really wouldn't be much of an issue at all. The stories of NHS and it's aggresive and manipulative sales model will continue to be added to the long litany found on this site.

  71. TL says:

    correct steve …….if the sales pitches are dishonest then i see your point but such isnt ALWAYS the case. Its still up to the consumer to ask the necessary questions and do the research when buying anything online /in person from anywhere. YOU CANT JUST DISMISS A PRODUCT AND A WHOLE COMPANY solely based on what you have posted here. SOME RESPONSIBILITY must be taken by you (as a consumer) If YOU dont ask necessary questions before u do something then your only a victim of yourself . ( with all other SMEAR CAMPAIGNING ASIDE) just my thought on this today after reading what showed up in my email from here )

    • Steve says:

      The sales pitches are dishonest. This is not a smear campaign. These are accurate stories of what's going on.

    • RICH says:

      …SOME RESPONSIBILITY must be taken by you (as a consumer)….

      some asshole shows up at your door i'm an elderly 70 year (or not) and he/she says we are from YOUR local gas company Enbridge and are in the neighbourhood checking to see if you're water heater is up to code and needs to be replaced (let the fucker in) yup look here your water heater is outdated and costing you money, we will replace this absolutely for free just sign here………… NO THE RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR AN HONEST PERSON TO COME TO YOUR DOOR AND DISCLOSE HE IS A COMPETITOR LOOKING TO TAKE THE BUSINESS AWAY FROM DE AND THAT YOU ARE LOCKING YOURSELF IN A LONG TERM CONTRACT! NO SHADY BULLSHIT! NO $600 CANCELLATION FEES ETC…..

      • tl says:

        the cancellation fee is only if you cancel before 5yrs ( YOU'RE NOT LOCKED INTO 15 yrs) and it covers the cost of the removal of old inefficient tank/tank return fee and the install of the new one NHS puts in. An investment that NHS makes to give you better service w/ an energy star tank. It takes about 5 years to recover that investment. NO B.S. It benefits customer and co. think about it …have u got a better idea???? (other than investing one yourself not everyone can just buy one and maintain it) ….just because you rent doesnt mean you should rent what you are given which is most of the time an old and neglected water heater that uses more gas or electricity …whats the alternative ..I think NHS has the best one so far when it comes to rental water heaters for us renters .

  72. Linda says:

    We had none of that said to us. The guy was right upfront about who he was and why he was there. There was no pressure. So we have no problem with changing and saving energy and hard earned money!

    • Steve says:

      Linda it would be most helpful if you can, to follow up and give us some perspective on how much money you have saved. The difference in heat retention between a star rated tank and an "older" model of tank is negligable. This is a technical fact and not an assumption. My gut check tells me that the potential of saving hard earned dollars were overstated to you.

    • BigM says:

      Linda, I would also be interested in knowing if the rental costs are lower, higher, or identical to what you were paying with your previous company.

      Thanks.

    • tl says:

      not everyone can afford $1290.00 to have an ENERGY STAR tank installed or the time to fuss over it if it stops working …reason why there are rentals and the services that come with a rental. duh!!

    • Energy Review says:

      And not everyone to be lock-in with a long term contract with high cancellation fee. If we want to keep our 7 years old – perfectly working tank because we don't want to be lockin a long-term contract. That's our problem.

  73. Jim Pouget says:

    what happened to boviewan's comments?

    He stated upfront he worked for NHS and never said anything bad and I agree with much of what he said.

    After I switched to NHS I received 5 calls from Reliance threatening to have a collection agency get involved if I did not continue with my rental payments even though my old water heater had been picked up 3 months ago.

    I just found out that Reliance accepted the delivery of the 18 year old water heater over a month ago yet they were still trying to bill me for it.

    Starting to wonder about this thread and the motives behind it

    Jim P

    • boviewan says:

      Unfortunately our customer service line is not informing people properly of how to deal with this issue. I have spoken to my manager about that and he is working to get changes made on that front. While the Reliance bill should not need to be paid, if you mail them in to NHS we will cover the cost if it is causing you any problems.

      • Steve says:

        Folks this was another example by a NHS employee who finally admited that there are issues with the sales tactics in the field. It almost seems like the dog has his tail between his legs. NHS has not established any credibility. The deceit at the customers door has woven itself into the legacy of NHS. I hope it stops. NHS is big enough to care.

    • boviewan says:

      i didn't put my comment anywhere to be read sooner or later. i replied to a comment I felt i should reply to, that is all. It's so easy for you to say bad things about me without knowing who I am. If you want to inform people, rather than posting all these bad things and partial quotes, just scan our full terms and conditions onto the page. That is allowing people to make an informed decision, this is trying to persuade people away from the company. Information is neutral, this is most certainly not.

  74. reviewer says:

    I am a student and I worked with National Home Services for a few weeks. They are a horrible company! They trick students into working with them and lie about the wages one will receive for each sell. They scam their own employees! The employees do not know anything about water heater tanks. They are "trained" to memorize a script. I left the position immediately.

  75. Row Michaluk says:

    Ya I just got accepted into the company, haven't started working just yet but i have to say i am a little concerned about the whole thing. Door to door is a back breaking job in itself, but to offer people lies??? I am an honest person, and a mother of 6 that needs employment in the worst way! My first day will consist of a 12 hour day WITH NO PAY, but i am also told i could make $300-$800 a week just to start. Lord knows i need that kind of money, but will the pay out be that much? No doing a little research, I am not as hopeful as I was in the start. I don't want to have to put in a 12 hour day to find out that I have wasted my time…better time put in looking for a better job…but then again it might be the job that pays out and keeps my family a float! HMMMMMM

    • Steve says:

      Row your comments are to be respected. More important is the respect you need to have for yourself. You deserve to work for an honest company. NHS is not the company for you. I'll say a prayer for you. All the best

  76. Sinny says:

    Ok, firstly. Not everything on here is true. I work for NHS. The people that I work with are amazing day-to-day people. Being pushy isn't part of my quota, and I don't sell tanks most days because I'm so through, honest, and laid back that I don't make an effort to argue.

    All companies have flaws. Reliance isn't innocent either. Instead of complaining about us, look at other companies. Everyone either loves it or hates it.

    And do you know how many times I've gone to a door and been yelled at, and pushed because people think we're evil? I'm just making money.

    I looked into the company. I read the terms and conditions like the bible. I've done research. We're NOT a scam, but we're not perfect either.

    Again, I love my co-workers. They're amazing people.

    Personally, I sell the tanks to people who really need them, and a tank that's 7 years old can be changed out. It's usually unmaintained. It's worse off than people think.

    • Steve says:

      The instructions found on most water heaters suggest draining off a bucket of water from the drain valve once a month or other. The drain valve has about a 3/8" hole in it. You cannot get rid of hardly any sediment in the heater by simply maintaining it as you are suggesting. Again your ploy to push that a seven year old tank needs to be changed has not changed and therein lies the continuing "scam" or false impression!

  77. tl says:

    "It’s not so much the product, but the underhanded way in which they manage to get themselves into people’s homes. They imply that it is a mandatory tank replacement, when all they are doing is trying to poach someone else’s customers. Does that sound ethical to you?"

    @MARIE…………NHS is giving you a choice that you were never offered before.

    The current provider simply bought your water heater from the original owners and billed you for it with rising costs over the years w/ no justifiable reason. All they did was assume you as a customer and continued to take your $$ to pipe into another economy !! Business (D/E & RELIANCE & EMBRIDGE ETC)that bought you the easy way /gave you no choice in the matter /offered no services let alone a new tank (unless it no longer provides hot water to you). What's with all the loyalty to a company that has done nothing but take your $$ and increase your rates for noo reason while you pay more for operating costs (gas or electricity) ????? Now does that sound more ethical to you?? All you have done is paid more into an economy non-Canadian and for what ???

    NHS IS at least TRYING to give better service and product for Canadians who have been scammed for years …over 150,000 of us have realized this now. A scam doesnt have this kind of power over people …. however common sense does.

    • tl says:

      ONCE IT SINKS IN …THAT IS LOL

    • Steve says:

      I just discovered a wonderful use for all of the NHS fans and employees who have tried to reply in kind to the ongoing litany of tiresome sales tactics. I'm going to print off a copy of the comment chain and add it as fertilizer to my tomato plants. It's going to be cheaper than buying manure. Hey now there's an energy star idea if ever I heard one.

    • Sinny says:

      And you're right there. Which I've never changed a tank older than 8 years.

      Not all NHS people are right, not all know what they're talking about, and none of them understand 100%. :/

  78. tl says:

    "Did you know after 3 years since National Home Services open for business in 2008, Water Heater Rentals is now on the top 10 most consumer complaints in Ontario? This includes all water heater rental companies like DE, Reliance and Summit Energy, but the funny thing is, Water Heater Rentals were not on the list before. Only when National came into the market in 2008."

    @ ENERGY REVIEW :

    Thats only because no one realized the real rental scam thats been going on for years . The inefficient water heaters costing renters more in utility costs /dirty water that hold potentially dangerous bacteria in the bottom of the neglected tanks /neglected tanks bursting causing damage in renters homes and as a result a rise in cost of home insurance to the homeowner not the companies who neglected to prevent that from happening in the first place !!! and the UNJUSTIFIED rising of rental fees………until NHS came along to RAISE AWARENESS & take the responsibility on for the rental tanks people just paid for whatever they were given no questions asked . Tanks will never be neglected again with NHS in charge and the only ones complaining are the competitors who are losing their customers because of all the neglect over the years along with people (like yourself ) who have nothing better to do than complain about a company who is at least making efforts to provide better service and product ETC…..BOTTOM LINE !! :p All do respect but you have as much inconsistency in your drivel as the bible has.

    ***FYI… FACTS re: scams IF YOU GOOGLE ANY WORD OR BUSINESS with scam after it it will produce a list on the internet. ANYONE can post a website or blog etc even a 9 yr old ….it doesnt make it valid info just because its on the internet. Try it for yourself and prove me wrong on this!!! have fun

  79. tl says:

    RE: "Enjoy the life long contract that is attach with your water heater tank. And if you want to get out, enjoy the cancellation fees. Also, enjoy the higher monthly cost."

    1/ I repeat its NOT A CONTRACT AND you are NOT LOCKED into anything.

    2/ The so called cancellation fees YOU keep referring to are to cover the cost of all the work done to put the new tank in your home …if you rent the tank for 5 YEARS from NHS what u pay in 5 years covers the cost of the work done to get that in there in the first place.

    After 5 years IF YOU DECIDE you want to buy the tank then buy it / WITH NO EXTRA FEES …just the value of the tank.

    3/If YOU DECIDE you want to continue renting it just continue renting it (AND get the services that come with that agreeement) . YOU HAVE OPTIONS AND ARE LOCKED INTO NOTHING !!

    4/ If you want to own it without services and before 5 years is rented ..then u pay the cost of the tank and install fees..its not unreasonable/ its business. (Why would you expect it for free??? NHS IS NOT A CHARITY and never has claimed to be. lol)

    5/ IF YOU DECIDE you just dont want NHS…(for some silly unknown reason here ) before 5 years has passed since installation then yes you are obligated to pay the fees of installation and the cost to have it removed ..those arent penalty fees. Thats what it cost the company to provide you with an energy star water heater & services .

    **I ASK SOME OF YOU WHY should a company pay for the removal of a great product and service for no good reason ????

    It is a business transaction WITH OPTIONS ..no LOCK-IN !!! WHATS UNFAIR ABOUT THAT??

    • tl says:

      @ ENERGY REVIEW

      1/ I repeat its NOT A CONTRACT AND you are NOT LOCKED into anything.

      2/ The so called cancellation fees YOU keep referring to are to cover the cost of all the work done to put the new tank in your home …if you rent the tank for 5 YEARS from NHS what u pay in 5 years covers the cost of the work done to get that in there in the first place.

      After 5 years IF YOU DECIDE you want to buy the tank then buy it / WITH NO EXTRA FEES …just the value of the tank.

      3/If YOU DECIDE you want to continue renting it just continue renting it (AND get the services that come with that agreeement) . YOU HAVE OPTIONS AND ARE LOCKED INTO NOTHING !!

      4/ If you want to own it without services and before 5 years is rented ..then u pay the cost of the tank and install fees..its not unreasonable/ its business. (Why would you expect it for free??? NHS IS NOT A CHARITY and never has claimed to be. lol)

      5/ IF YOU DECIDE you just dont want NHS…(for some silly unknown reason here ) before 5 years has passed since installation then yes you are obligated to pay the fees of installation and the cost to have it removed ..those arent penalty fees. Thats what it cost the company to provide you with an energy star water heater & services . OBVIOUSLY YOU NEED TO READ THIS AGAIN………Not just your own perspective and misrepresentation of things !!

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