on 
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on National Home Services (water heater division)
The power of high-pressure sales: From CBC aired on March 20, 2009 on CBC-TV
FYI: Universal Energy are the same people from National Home Services. They change their name to National Home Services because of the video above. Here is proof click here. Also, Just Energy acquired National Home Services. Read more about it here…
See what people are saying about Universal Energy, now acquire by Just Energy. Click here.
This post is not about the price for a water heater tank or about how much money we can save, it is not about saving the world and this is not about the energy efficient tanks. It is about the sleazy sale tactics by National Home Services. It is misleading from the first sentence that came out of their mouth. National Home Services “independent” energy agent lied by saying they were sent by or affiliated with our current provider, or they would say they were sent by the government for a check up. That was why I felt I had to let them in.
I would be more than happy to pay $2 or $5 dollars more each month for something we need, instead National Home Services tried to replace our water heater tank that is only 7 years old and doesn’t need replacement. National Home Services “independent” energy agent completely lied by saying our water heating tank was out dated, might blow up, and contain dirty water. When he only looked at my tank for 10 seconds. Also, he wasn’t a water heater technician, he was a sale man, an “independent” energy agents and he had no idea what was inside the tank.
On top of that the “independent” energy agent didn’t even mention the long term contract and left out many details on the contract or did not clearly disclose all the pricing, terms and conditions. For example, the “independent” energy agent left out the big fine for their cancellation fees and the a fine for transferring my contract if I was to sell my home within the next 15 years. For those reasons, I hope no one sign up with National Home Services.
Here is an article from The Star “Don’t sign sales deals at your door”, about National Home Services and other companies making sales going door to door.
Why you should not sign with National Home Services
- Be in a long term contract (15 years, the “independent” energy agent will not disclose this in person)
- Pay $4364 dollars in total. More than your current provider.
- Why are the “independent” energy agents from Natioanl Home Services wearing a full uniform by the company? If these sale agents really “independent” energy agents, shouldn’t they be wearing their “independent” uniform and not National Home Services? You should only be allow to wear a full uniform by a company if you work for the company and that company should take full accountability for all of their employees. To me, by having their so called “independent” energy agents wearing a full uniform by the company is the first sign of deception.
- National Home Services “independent” energy agent will replace your old tank and install the new tank for FREE. Also include 2 months Free. ( It’s not free. You will be paying $4364 when the average tank is $800 – $1500…)
- National Home Services will falsely claim to be from your current provider or made themselves sound like they were sent by the government on a routine checkup or say your current provider (Direct Energy) no longer provide hot water heater service or say they want to give free water heater check up, when in fact they are not licensed technician.
- When you sell your home you will need the new home owner to carry over your hot water tank contract from National Home Services. If the new home owner does not want to carry the contract for whatever reason, you will have to pay $500 dollars and more for breaking the contract. (Again, National Home Services “independent” energy agent will not tell you this. )
- The hot water heater from National Home Services is no better than the one you ready have. National Home Services tank may be 1% – 5% more energy efficient than your current one because it is Star Energy rated. You might be saving $1 and maybe $2 each month, but end up paying Naitonal Home Services $4 or more each month. (National Home Services will not disclose exactly how much more energy efficient their tanks when compare with the one you currently have )
- There are reports that National Home Services are installing their tanks the next day or with-in 10 days after the customers sign. It is against the law for door to door sales to do that with out having the consumers their 10 days cooling off period. ( The consumers may cancel their contract after 10-60 days after signing without any penalty )
- National Home Services will not tell you their hot water tank is for leasing and not a rental.
If all the above make you happy, then go with National Home Services.
If your hot water heater tank is over 10 years old, contact your current provider to see if they will replace it, usually they do at no charge. It doesn’t cost anything to ask.
WARNING:
They are now installing the water heater tank the next day without 10-60 days reaffirmed by the customer. If their product is so good why are they misleading everyone to sign and breaking the laws not letting the consumer have their 10-60 days to reaffirmed by phone?
Here is an article on TheStar.com on what happened when National Home Services “independent” energy agent came to someone’s home in Ajax and after 20 minutes of signing. A technician came to remove their water heater tank.
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/701345
Also, National Home Services want you to sign a 15 years contract for a hot water tank and increase your monthly payment. I bet no one told you about the 15 years contract and if you move or want to get a better water heater in the future than you will have to break the 15 years contract which National Home Services will want you to pay another $500 or more for you to break that contract. It is a total scam. They seem to be there to help you but they are not. Read more below, see all the comments and decide for yourself.
How to get out from door to door sales?
“In 2002 the Ontario government brought in what’s called the Consumer Protection Act, which requires all agreements signed door to door to be reaffirmed by the customer between 10 and 60 days after the initial contract was signed. This MUST be done, or there’s no deal.” read more click here…
Ok, I am pretty sure all these companies below are one big corporation of douche bags. Going door to door misleading everyone to buy their stuff. Pretending to work for your current provider so you would let them inside the house and making up things by saying the tank is too old and might explode releasing carbon dioxide.
- Just Energy Exchange Corp.
- Just Energy
- National Home Services
- Universal Energy Group Ltd.
- Newten Home Comfort Inc (or just Newten)
- = One big scam artists.
More about Universal Energy scam (same company as National Home Services) by Bill Sithers. I know this post is suppose to be about National Home Services, but both Universal and National are the same companies. So if one of their company does this, than why wouldn’t’ they do the same thing with their other companies?
If you are here, it is probably because you are one of their victim. But you can always fight back. Don’t let them walk all over you and does nothing about it. We all have to speak up and tell our stories. Read below to find what you can do to stop this company from hurting you and other people in your community.
Did a National Home Services come to your home and:
- Create confusion in your mind about water heater?
- Mislead or misrepresent any aspect of their offer?
- Abuse your trust?
- Unduly pressure or harass you to enter into a transaction?
- Exploit your lack of experience or knowledge in purchasing water heater or legal contracts?
- Did they harass you?
- Did they deal with your spouse or other that has language or comprehension issues?
- Did you end up signing anyways, after you told them to leave?
If you answer “YES” to one or more, write down what happened and call or send complaints to your Local Members of Parliament. In Aurora and Newmarket, Emal: BrownLo@parl.gc.ca or call: 905-953-7515. Here is a complete list of the local MP around GTA Click Here or The Ministry of Consumer Services. Tell them your story. Stop the scam!
Send your complaints to your local MP or The Ministry of Consumer Services.
Canceling Your Contract
* The contract is subject to a cooling off period. You have the absolute right to cancel (for any reason) within 10 days of receiving a written copy of the agreement.
* The vendor has made a false, misleading or deceptive representation about the goods or services you agreed to buy or lease.
* The information about the goods or services, or your rights as a consumer required by the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, are not provided to you in the agreement.
Read more…
Bottom Line: any strangers show up at your door offering to save you money is lying. No one get out of their way to go save you money, they only do it because they want your money. They will lie, they had lied and they will lie in your face, in your own home to get your money.
My Story:
I got someone knocking on my door this evening as I drove up my drive way. There was a National “independent” energy agent with a badge and all waiting at my door step. He told me he was from National Home Services which take care all of our home water heating tank and he wanted to check out our tank (he made it sound like he was from one of our current provider at Direct Energy). So I thought he was just on a routine maintenance check up so I let him in to the house and show him the water heat tank in the basement. He took a look at my water heater quickly and noticed the sticker on the heater that says 2002.
He then told me about this tank is out dated and it is not energy efficient and he will have someone over and rip the entire thing out free of charge. The only difference was the new heating tank will be more energy efficient and 4 dollars monthly fee increase from $20.xx to $24.25 with 15 years warranty. Anyways I sign the contract, and then I did some research and found this forum http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=674026
and here is one more http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=105733
I didn’t know about the renting out water heater (yea doh) tank and I always thought the water heater was so expensive we need to rent it out. Now I know better, it would save us more money in the long run (5 years and more) to just buy the damn thing. Anyways, I’m canceling the new water heater (you have less than 10 days from the day you sign to cancle) as we don’t need it and the one we have is only 7 years old, which is about 50% of its life span.
Also that contract I signed with National is a 15 years contract which the “independent” energy agent didn’t say, he only said 15 years of warranty. That is just wayyyy too long. We wound be dishing out $4364 dollars in 15 years when we can just buy one our self and pay the someone one hour of installation charge and the total cost to buy one our self is less than half the $4364.
For those of you that said “…those who signed the contract without reading it properly have only themselves to blame.”. Basically, I didn’t even saw the written contract. Read the rest on my comment below how this “independent” energy agent got me signed.
National Home Services is more like National Home Scam. I honestly wish there is some law against these people, maybe limit it to a maximum of $50 dollars you can sell from door to door sales. What about older people that don’t know how to use the internet to do their research? What about the immigrants like my mother that does;t speak or read English that well? If I sign the $50 dollars deal than it is not too big of a deal, but a 15 years contract, plus a few hundreds or even thousands of dollars to break the 15 years contract is too much. Because I rather spend my time doing something productive than blah blah complaining here.
The scam here is that the National Home Service “independent” energy agent sounded like he was from my current provider (Direct Energy). He didn’t tell me about the 15 years lease contract and only mention the 15 years warranty. The National Home Service sale agent also didn’t mention about the leasing and if I wanted to sell my house within the 15 years of leasing, then the new home buyer will need to carry the contact over. If the new home buyer wanted to remove the water heater, then it is going to be pay by me to cancel with National Home Services. I’m not sure how much to break the 15 years contract but I know it won’t be cheap. But with my current water heater with Direct Energy I am only renting from them, I can remove it anytime I want without paying anything.
One last thing, before the National Home Service sale agent left. He told me there will be someone from National Home Service calling me after 10 days and all I have to do is to say “YES”. This National Home Service sale agent never told me about the 10 days cooling off period, he just wanted me to say “YES”, until I did my research and find out that there is this law for door to door sale over $50 dollars will need your reaffirmation over the phone. Funny how I can go out and buy a t-shirt for $20 dollars and then return the t-shirt back to the store with the receipt for a full refund with-in 30 days, but if you buy or sign a long term contract that have you spend thousands of dollars you only have 10 days.
W3C XHTML 1.0, 
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did you end up cancelling? is it still possible? read the contract.
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Yea, I called them the next day to cancel. You have 10 days to cancel after you sign.
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Sounds like you work for Direct Energy buddy! Hey you failed to mention DE ALSO has an F from the BBB http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews/gas/direct-energy-marketing-limited-in-north-york-on-1088307
By the way I install tank-less for National…
***Cut off my admin. Any people working for Just Energy/National Home Services will have to pay a $600 dollars fine (I mean discount) to post a full comment on this website. Read my terms and conditions.***
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Don’t you worry. I am waiting for the next energy sales man to show up at my house. With my hidden cameras already setup, next time I won’t only be writing about it.
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This was very interesting and informative. Thanks!
If these guys who sit around thinking up ways to con people would put their efforts toward something useful and honest, just think how great our society would be.
Thanks again!
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Here is what tipped me off.
1-day installation.
Chinese sales and technicians. warning.
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racist
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Piano Blues; I remember you said something about the above video not being the same thing as energy? But I lost your comment since I transfer to my new web host.
I have proof that Universal Energy are the same people from National Home Services. Read below…
“Universal Energy Group’s common shares are listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol “UEG”. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Universal Energy Corporation, sells electricity and natural gas in Ontario and natural gas in British Columbia to residential, small to mid-size commercial and small industrial customers. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Universal Gas & Electric Corporation, sells natural gas in Michigan to residential, small to mid-size commercial and small industrial customers. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary National Energy Corporation, operating under the trade name National Home Services, offers Ontario residential customers a long term water heater rental program. Universal Energy Group through its subsidiary Terra Grain Fuels Inc., operates an ethanol facility in Belle Plaine, Saskatchewan that is designed to produce approximately 150 million litres of ethanol annually.”
The link is here http://www.annualreports.com/Company/4800
But hey, if you are happy with it then go with it. I’m just saying I don’t like people coming in to my house bull shiting me and people I know. And I dont want to spend more than I have too. However, if you have the money then go with it.
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I don’t want to make Direct Energy look like a good guy here. If anyone show up to your door saying they’re from Direct Energy or NHS or any other energy company and say they are here to save you money. Then they are not telling the truth. No one shows up to your door to save you money.
If you do the math you are best to to save your self money to buy your on water heater regardless of what company you’re under. It might seem to cost a lot at first but after 3 or 4 years you will get that money back. Don’t wait or listen to all the sales people knocking on your door.
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Just had a guy from National Home Service (Water Heater Division)show up at my door.. at the same time as I was on my phone, trying to send a text to the U.K. on a cell and listening to my ill child calling for me all the while the dog was barking. Not good timing for the sales guy! He was trying to tell me his shpeel and being so busy, told him I was good. He then became rude and snapped at me telling me he didn’t ask if I was good! Great way to make a sale! Not. I then got angry and sharply told him I couldn’t talk to him so he huffed and puffed and said he’d be back. Good luck. Next time, I hope I don’t have 18 things happening at once so I can calmly tell him to get off my property as I did not call him and he is trespassing. I would not even hesitate to call the police frankly. Consumers are so much smarter these days. Why would anyone, I mean anyone, buy anything from a guy who comes to your door??
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yep … they have come twice now in the past week demanding that our water heater must be replaced and that we were notified of this replacement in our Enbridge bill and that the company he works for is affiliated with Enbridge. What bothers me is that I called Enbridge/Direct Energy to complain and they said there was nothing they could do because there is always something included in the Enbridge bill about gas marketers etc so techincally he was telling the truth and if we did sign up with them (even unknowingly) … Enbridge bills on their behalf so they are “affiliated”. Sad part is, for every 95 intelligent customers who see through it there will always be that 5 who do not and will sign up (likely at a premium) and will never know differently because their same old Enbridge bill shows up and because the amount of gas you use is not constant and rates always changing – the few extra dollars every few months will not be noticed.
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I work for this company, and after reading this just would like to straighten a few things out.
National Home Services replaces old water tanks with energy star rated, more efficient ones free of charge.
Its nothing to do with a gas contract or anything else.
If you are already paying rent anyway for an old one that is wasting energy and money, why not get a free upgrade? It saves money.
I can understand some people being scared by 15 year contract. But, for that whole time the tank is babied and taken care of so that it works well/at ‘energy star’ efficiency. The goal is to keep people happy.
There is a difference than being an informed customer, and writing incorrect, misinformed statements over the internet.
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Bug your missing the point of what is being said. It’s not free. Fail…
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“National Home Services replaces old water tanks with energy star rated, more efficient ones free of charge.”
My house was built in 2002 and now it is 2009. Our water heater is 7 years old, it has a 15 years life capacity. So the tank is about 50% of its life span, so it is not too old, maybe 75%-90% life capacity. Also nothing is free, you were asking $4 dollars increase from our previous payment and the only high efficiency water heater available on the marketplace is branded Polaris water heater made by American Water Heater from Tennessee. Not from National Home Services!
“Its nothing to do with a gas contract or anything else.”
You are a energy company, water heater is energy. National Home Services is also under Just Energy Exchange Corp. which is an energy company that sells gas and other energy products. Your stock (UEG) went up this year, so you must be misleading people very well. “nothing to do with a gas contract” you’re working under Just Energy Exchange Corp. who’s misleading who? Stop your lies.
“If you are already paying rent anyway for an old one that is wasting energy and money, why not get a free upgrade? It saves money.”
Again, it is not FREE. You are charging $4 dollars more each month than our last provider. Also, no one knows exactly how much money we will save from your tank, there is no fact and you can’t prove how much money we will save. Just because you say it is energy efferent doesn’t mean it will be saving more than $4 dollars a month. You and your other company been saying that all those years, guess what? We know about your scam.
Your other company Universal Energy Group Ltd., my aunt had a contract with them, and they promise to be saving them money. But they end up paying more for their gas, and when they sold their home they had to pay a $500 penalty for Universal Energy Group Ltd. Why the hell I want to go with you?
It’s time for you guys to make up another company, then you can come back and say that company is not an energy company.
“I can understand some people being scared by 15 year contract.”
You should tell your sales guy that. They didn’t even want us to read the back of the contract they just want us to sign so they can get their commissions and go on their way.
“There is a difference than being an informed customer, and writing incorrect, misinformed statements over the internet.”
Misinform? Which part? I don’t want to write this article but I feel that I have to warn everyone about this. I don’t get pay for this, there is nothing for me. If you check my site I have about 3 or 4 other complaints that I believe to be hurting people. Do you believe I want to waste time with this crap? I would be happily buy your stuff, if you have something I want that will benefit me and my family. But that is not the case here. If you haven’t notice, I am not the only person online to have this topic.
Stop misleading people, tell us about your canceling fee, tell us your terms and conditions, tell us about your long term contract. You must be honest with people, stop cutting corners.
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Hey Baulzy,
You forgot your little scam about the 15 years lease. If we move and the new home owner don’t want your water heater. Then you guys will charge the hell out of us and on and on.
I’m not scared by 15 years contract, I just don’t like it when your sales rep come in my house and don’t tell me all the details. Tell your sales rep to tell people about the 15 years leasing part. Would you like to sign up a 15 years contract with me and pay more than the other guy? Oh and when you move away and want to break the contract I’ll charge the daylight out of you. Sound like a deal huh?
I hope people come in here and not sign up with what you are currently providing, unless they don’t mind paying extra.
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Thom,
I highly doubt people would make an issue about having an energy star water tank when they buy a house. Most people are big on the lower carbon footprint. The issue has not come up at all yet.
Remember that any company is a business, and to front the cost of a brand new tank with labour, parts and service in people costs money. If people turn around and cancel there will be no way any business can survive.
The 2 or 3 dollars extra a month is more than made up for in gas savings of the new tanks. Once again, the goal is to have happy customers.
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I highly doubt people would make an issue about having an energy star water tank when they buy a house. Most people are big on the lower carbon footprint. The issue has not come up at all yet.
There is always a chance that the new home owner will not want the water heater and if they decide not to carry over the contract I bet we will have to pay for breaking the contract. Also, the National Home Services contract is a long time and by the time you move, say 10 years. There will be better water heater tanks and a good chance the new home owner will want to get the newer tank.
Your other company Universal charge $600 – $1500 to cancel their gas contract why the hell I want to sign with you?
Remember that any company is a business, and to front the cost of a brand new tank with labour, parts and service in people costs money. If people turn around and cancel there will be no way any business can survive.
Most companies don’t use sleazy tactics as you at National Home Services and your other company Universal. Lies, misleading, pressure sale tactics, fear tactics, you name it. Look at the Better Business Bureau rating on National Home Services.
And the rating for the sister company called Universal.
You got a big F for both companies! The Government had to take action for one of your company. I hope all of you working there start writing your resume because your business will not survive.
The 2 or 3 dollars extra a month is more than made up for in gas savings of the new tanks. Once again, the goal is to have happy customers.
This is not about the money, or saving the planet from green house gas. Your sales guy came in my home then mislead us to sign and without fully clarify all the terms and conditions. He didn’t even show me the contract when he as here. On top of that a 15 years contract that we have to stick with, which I was not told about when National Home Service’s sale man was here. You guys are the one that will be happy with all the money you took from us and hind behind your contracts. Bunch of crooks!
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I can go buy any energy star water tank on my own and have install. I don’t need to sign any 15 years lease contract. If someone wants a 15 years contract and pay 3 dollars per month to make them happy then so let them, but for me I say no thanks.
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I have too disagree with you guys oin this forum. I was with Direct energy for 7 years and they never maintained the tank I had and yet they gave me an annual increase of almost 4% a year. The NHS guys came, took out the crappy hot water tank and gave me an energy star tank and let me know it is transferaable with the tank and will maintain it. lol..I also found out I get 2 monthsd free rental and I can sign up my newighbours and get 2 months free fopr each of them. I am completely satisfied with them. For the ones who are non believers…stick to your crappy 9 year old gas waster…
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Bigman – I guess you didn’t read my post.
1. You want to sign a 15 years contract.
2. Pay $4364 dollars in total.
3. When NHS said they pull the old tank out then install the new one, and include 2 months Free. It’s not free. You will be paying them $4364 for a tank. Look around, the average tank is $1000 – $1500…
4. You like having people coming inside your home, lie and not telling you all the facts.
5. Get charge if you move and the new home owner doesn’t want your NHS tank. (15 years is a long long time, I bet in the next 10 years all the homes will have a tankless system and you going to regret having to sign that contract)
If all that above makes you happy, then sign away.
I just think you work for NHS, so nice try.
I’m not trying to defend Direct Energy or anything. But they send you a letter once or twice a year asking you to phone them so they can schedule their maintenance person to go over your house for maintenance.
I recently had the motor on our water heater not working the other week. I called their 24 hr phone and answer some questions. 4 hours later the repair man from Direct Energy came and fixed the tank.
If you really want a better and more energy efficient water heater. Then go get a tankless system. Which we are getting it really soon…
I look up the price for the tankless system and it is around $1500 (6 gallon per minute). We will have to pay the $1500 Plus installation (maybe around $100-$300?) up front, but at the end we will still be saving $2364 if we were to go with NHS and the tankless system is much more energy efficient. So we will save more money from our electric bills also.
So yea, go ahead listen to their sales guy. Sign another 15 years contract for $24 dollars a month. We already have a 20 years mortgage to worry about, we don’t need another 15 years of $24 dollars a month for something we don’t need.
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Bigman is definitely an asshole who works for National Home Services. One of their guys came to my door today in Ajax, he spoke at about a hundred words per minute to a point I had to interrupt and tell him to stop talking, he insinuated he was with the company that services my water heater and was here to replace it for free, I had to directly ask him to repeat that he was my current provider, I had to ask him twice to respond when he finally said no, but we got all these people on your street to sign up and showed me his clipboard and our neighbours addresses are highlighted in yellow (little does he know I know them all) so normally I love these door to door salespeople cause I’m always a step ahead, and usually I end up telling them to fuck off but he offered me a free inspection and since I had just moved into the house I said go ahead, the long story short he never mentioned locking in for 15 yrs only 15 yr warranty where they come every 4-5 years to do maintenance, I asked directly about canceling and he said there would be a $200 penalty same as direct energy, reading other blogs above it seems he was lying about both.
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I wouldn’t put on any weight when they say there is a $200 dollars penalty when you cancel. These guys going around lying by saying these tanks are so energy efficient and will save you money, but yet they charge another $4-$5 dollars more. They told everyone they were sent by our current provider (Direct Energy) but you had to ask them twice (you are smart than most of us).
For example, I have read many stories when people moved out from their home into an apartment where they don’t have to pay for their utility bills. The gas company Universal Energy, which is part of National Home Services sent them letters saying they will have to pay $500 and up to $1xxx of dollars for breaking the contract with Universal Energy. While Universal Energy already know that in their OWN contract stated that if the home owner move (while under contract with them) to another location where the owner don’t have to pay utility, the home owner don’t have to pay any penalty.
These people at Universal Energy still send those letters demanding money, assuming the home owner would pay, until the home owner reread their contract, going through all the legal stuff. To me it was such a waste of time to have to go through this, but at the end Universal Energy drop their penalty, but the home owners had to fight for it. They will try anything to get as much money from you and find any loop holes in the law to get money from you.
I am currently writing another article about Universal Energy, National Home Services and their other companies. Below is a list of companies that I found to be related and run by the same people. I will have all the facts to proof my point real soon.
CANADA
Just Energy Exchange Corp.
Just Energy
National Home Services
Universal Energy Group Ltd.
Newten Home Comfort Inc (or just Newten)
Ontario Energy Savings Corp**
Alberta Energy Savings L.P
Energy Savings Group
USA
Us Energy Saving Corp
US Energy Savings Corp
USESC
Energy Savings Group
Natural Gas Delivery
Why so many different names? If you are a con artist and have bad reputation and being sued. It make sense to change your name so people can’t track you.
These guys can’t be trusted from anything they say or from the contract they wrote themselves.
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Oh, one more thing. Here is an article on the Illinois Attorney General website about a $1 million dollar law suite to Energy Savings Corp. which is run by Just Energy, which runs Universal Energy and National Home Services.
Here’s a Quote from the article:
“Chicago — Attorney General Lisa Madigan today announced an agreement with U.S. Energy Savings Corp. that will allow hundreds of Illinois consumers to terminate contracts and receive $1 million in restitution as a result of a lawsuit filed last year alleging that the alternative gas supplier sold fixed-rate gas contracts using misleading sales tactics that falsely promised significant consumer savings.”
Here is the link to the full article:
http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/pressroom/2009_05/20090514.html
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I just got another one of the National Service guy came to my house again last evening. This time is a different guy and right away he says he’s not a sale guy to sale us anything. (whatever)
I don’t know why but I let him in and he showed me some paper (he says it is from the government) saying that the black pipe at the top of the water need to be replace. (I should have ask for a copy)
Apparently, if the black pipe at the top of the water heater has a leak, it can leak out carbon dioxide or something like that.
If anyone know if this is true then post some links for everyone to get more information. We also have a carbon dioxide alarm just 3 meters from the water heater. So if this is true and the black pipe leaks. Then the alarm should go off long time ago.
So he says we need to replace that old black pipe just in case it doesn’t leak out carbon dioxide. (ok I’ll look into that first) . Now what really piss me off when he says the entire water heater need to be replace because they cant replace the black pipe without removing the entire thing first.
What a full of bull shit. You telling me you guys from National are so incompetent that they cant get me the right pipes to fit the water heater I have now and that you have to take everything out first?
Of course they going to get be a better water heater from them. What a bunch of bull.
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Well, since a National Home Service guy came to my door the other day it made me search around to see what others are saying about them currently.
Here is something I found that might be useful to you.
Link from BEWARE: National Water Heater rental Door to Door Sales
Read below.
“Just to ad some more info to this. I work for DE as a service tech, and get to respond to some of our concerned customers, here are some of the things these companies are telling you that are simply not true:
-Its 5 years old and is no longer effecient. This is wrong. Just like a furnace the effecieny does not magically disapear after 5 years. A tank has a lifespan of approximatly 15year i have serviced some 20-30year old tanks that where still going strong. DE realizes the tanks have have a life span and wont argrue if a customer wants a replacement on there 16year old plus tank….
-On the effeciency note… Tanks are fairly inefficient.. Its a fact. The most popular domestic water heaters have the following approximate effeciencys
Conventionals(standing pilot)- 60%
Power Vented(electronic ignition with electric ventor motor)- 60-65% plus electrica costs
I have heard in many cases sales people trying to pass off a PV tank as a high effeciency tank. They suggest that plastic venting and ventor motor make it more eficient. Totally wrong the flue temps are lower because there is induced venting going on and the whole design is to work around not having a chimney.
-The tank is not up to code. 99.9% this is wrong if where true and they where a licenced gas fitter they should be red tagging the water heater or contacting the local utility to tag it.
-The plastic venting is not up to code(ABS/PVC) Wrong again. The new code states that excisting installations are exempt and only when the tank is to be replace is it code to change to the new 636PVC venting system. Bacially if the vent is leak free it gets a grandfather clause.
-The tanks is limed up and full of sediment. Check for your self, if your in the city your not going to see sediment coming out of the drain vavle, the only people that could see liming and sediment are people on hard water. And its so rare that we see limed tanks. Eitherway if we find them like that we exchange them at no cost but encourage the use of water treatment.
-They work for Enbridge or Direct Energy. They dont. And Enbridge has not rented tanks nore done service in 11years, that portion of the business was sold to Direct Energy. So your Rental contract is with Direct Energy, and in some areas you could be renting for Union or Reliance.
If you have any concerns contact your rental company if your happy with them. From what i have heard they are not cheaper then DE and i have no idea who does there service work. We have 400+ technicians in ontario servicing the rental tanks. So that thanks are covered. DE will issue a service call to check out your rental tank if you have any concerns.
Any questiosn about rental tanks let me know i would be glad to help out. “
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my tank was built in 1998 will direct energy replace it if i ask?
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Give it a try and tell them about how National Home Services try to get you sign up with them. I read people with older tanks or hot water tanks that passed its’ life expectancy got their hot water tank replaced with DE.
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Here’s another thing to keep in mind. When you read the fine print at the back of the contract.
If you sign the 15 years contract and within those 15 years you move. You will have to get the new home owner to carry on the contract. If the new home owner decide not to carry on the contract for whatever reason, then you will have to pay ALL the balance you still have left with National Home Services. SCAM! SCAM! SCAM!
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Where on the contract does it say that there is a 15 year contract??? Please do tell
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You work for them. Wouldn’t you know where it is and you’re so smarter than me.
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Also, National Home Services came here back in Mar. 2009 (8 months ago). It is very likely they changed their contract because people caught up with their scam. Even if they did, I wouldn’t trust any of these door to door energy sale people.
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I ask again where is this talk of a 15 year contract/lease. YOU keep accusing NHS of scamming people left and right, and that’s fine we live in a free country. I mean I can say that police force are power hungry and unjust, and crooked. Some of them are yes, but does that really mean the entire OPP is too? OK, you had a bad experience with one sales person from NHS, stop crying about it like a b***h, DO some actually research then blog about with your Evidence.
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And FYI direct energy has already been sued by NHS for slander….if you actually listened to direct energy’s home phone calls and radio ads, they don’t mention the name National Home Services, because they can’t. That’s what we call slander, THAT is against the law. And for all you dummies who figure that NHS is just a scam, look up the word propaganda for me, why would DE put so much effort into speaking down about another company when they should be focusing on their own profits? If your into the stock market check out NHS stocks compared to DE…what a shame. If NHS is scamming so many people that they have numbers like they do then all you who were “scammed” shouldn’t walk around like sheep, why not educate yourself on appliances around YOUR own house!
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Why don’t you do your research about this 15 years lease. I am not the only one that got it. I don’t keep that contract hanging on my wall.
You think I’m making this up and accusing National Home Services? LOL. They are run by Universal Energy and we all know that they are true scammers, except for you of course. I don’t have to proof anything to you.
If you read and check all my links then you will see my evidences. And again, do YOUR research and you will find it is not ONLY me bitching about National Home Services.
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I don’t care if National Home Services sue DE. Good for them. Maybe the consumers should sue National Home Services too. All i’m saying is to stay away from National Home Services because of their questionable sale tactics.
It is also against the law to come in people’s house misleading people to sign. Not telling people about the 15 years contract, only mention the 15 years warranty. And it is wrong to switch people tanks that is not even 5 years old. Also, telling people that National Home Services tanks are more energy efficient when they really are not any different from any other water heater tanks in the market. It is also against the law to install their tanks without 10 days cooling period after a door to door deal and when people called to cancel with-in the 10 days, National Home Services wants their canceling fee.
Need I say more?
Also, this is not a propaganda. I don’t work or affiliate to DE or any energy companies. I am only telling my story. Do YOUR RESEARCH and you will see other people are saying the same thing about National Home Services too (except people like yourself that is making money from this), or just read the pages I have links all over this page. Or maybe watch the video by CBC (above) or read the articles by TheStar.com. I’m not making this up! And you’re asking me about my evidence?
It’s really easy for you to come here now and say “where is this talk of a 15 year contract/lease”, when it happened 8 months ago. Why did you have to wait 8 months to come here to ask for it? You have 8 months to change your little contract and then come here complaining I’m making it up.
Do yourself a favour and start writing your resume to find real work.
You’re just a waste of my time. I don’t know why I’m wasting time answering you.
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How could someone enter another persons home with out being allowed in? how could a water tank be replaced without a homeowners consent? That’s called breaking and entering which is not happening. that video feed at the top of this page is talking about pushy sales tactics from ENERGY sales people. And I counted three of them there. So how can three people in the wrong account for an entire company. there are police officers who have been charged for doing unlawful things, but does that mean the whole police force is bad? of course there are bad apples with in the company, we live on planet earth, there will be INDIVIDUALS out to scam you. YOU however keep generalizing the entire company. I feel sorry for you infact, because your a sheep and your only writing this blog because one of the bad apples from NHS pulled the wool over your eyes. If the contract really was changed from what it was 8 months ago then there has to be someone who has a copy, because they do give copy’s to all who sign up.
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They came in because they claim they are related to our current provider or they made it sound like they were sent by the government. This is a total lie and against the law.
National Home Services are installing the water heater with-in 10 days with out the cooling off period.This didn’t happen to me, but some people get their tank install the next day without the 10 days cooling off period. National Home Services knows that, but they are still doing it. Stop trying to blame other people when Natioanl Home Services know exactly what they are doing.
That’s correct; the video at the top is about pushy ENERGY sales people and who order them to do that? The people at the top of the company. One of that company in the video is called Universal Energy, the SAME Company and the SAME people who also run National Home Services. Wow you’re good, next time read my post first and I don’t have to repeat myself!
“three people in the wrong account for an entire” ….OMG! There are thousand of comments by people complaining about National Home Services and Universal. But I guess you would say all those people are lying too, with no evidence. There are only 3 people in the video, maybe it is a 30 minutes show? You just gave me an idea, I’ll have a list of the CEO and all of the other senior staffs who are running the show on my next blog post. Stay tune!
You think I’m lying about the $4xxx for a hot water tank? You think National Home Services Hot Water heater is more energy efficient than other thanks? They are not. Why are National Home Services sales men lying and pretending to be from the government or our current provider? You want to pay $500 and up for breaking the contract? The 15 years long term contract mean you have to pay $4xxx over a period of time and that period of time is 15 years. I don’t have the exact wording in my contract but is that clear enough for you? LOL
One of these days National Home Services and the people like you behind it will be in court to answer questions, not me. Don’t worry about it. It will come soon. It is already happening to other companies in the USA running by the same people behind National Home Services.
I never said there is “one of the bad apples from NHS” I’m saying all of National Home Services, Universal Energy and all of their other companies presently and all future companies they will made up is one giant bad apple.
Nice try.
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I signed up and they didn’t show up to install the tank. I got worried and searched the net. Now I has called them to cancel. They seems to be fine. I also asked there is a 10 days cooling period, rite and the lady on the phone said yes. So I guess this is ok. Buying my own tank, never considered.. will do more searching!!
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I got scammed and it took me 3 months to get out of my contract without any exit fees.
I advise everyone to check out this video clip that illustrates the practice of these people:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/power_of_persuasion/main.html
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Thanks for sharing this. I’m surprise no one sue them yet.
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Hey Piano Blues watch the video. You may fool some of us in person, but you can’t fool us here.
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/power_of_persuasion/main.html
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Apparently you have more than 10 days to back off your contract from door to door sign agreement.
Check out my post here for more info:
http://www.keyframe5.com/agreements-signed-door-to-door-has-10-60-days-to-cancel/
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I also call to cancel the installation. My neighbor is doing the same.
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Thats a shame theys guys offer you a lower rate on water heater and its rated energy Star unlike direct who are not 100% canuck ,Why pay a company that is not canadian why not keep our rental cash inn canada ,NO WONDER we have no jobs here , just keep buying from other countrys if you like your job so much !!!
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Why don’t you send me money? I am Canadian.
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“lower rate on water heater”
No, it cost $4 dollars more each month and it is on a 15 years contract.
“its rated energy Star unlike direct”
Sure it is energy star, but there is no real difference. My current tank is still energy efficient. It does not loss a alot of heat. Plus we are getting a tankless system which is more energy efficient.
“Why pay a company that is not canadian”
I am currently with Direct Energy. They work only in north america, it is not like they are from China or India.
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OMG! My husband was going to get the water heater changed with National Home Service yesterday and a Tech came in with his assistant and guess what happened, his assistant was going to steal my ipod touch. I went downstairs while they were all there and then the Tech sent him for a latter and while upstairs I heard foot steps near my dinning room where the Ipod touch was and ran upstairs because there was no need for the kid to be in the dinning room area. I looked at the dinning room table and the ipod was gone. I called my husband upstairs and told him to tell the tech what happened. My husband told the Tech and the assistant was confronted. They were about to leave and I told the assistant to hand it over otherwise I was going to call the cops and he said “call the cops, I don’t have it”. I knew then he had put it down somewhere but I did not know if he had it with him still or had put it in the truck already. I called the police and made the complaint to National Home Services. I told the police call taker that the men were still in the house. She then told me to tell them to remain in the premises until the cops get there. I told the men. We were waiting for over 2hrs for the police and then my husband remembered that the boy was on the later when he returned back downstairs after I called for him. We were all outside the house waiting for the cops at this time. My husband told the tech he was going to check the house again and he went down to where the heater is and looked all over. He did not think of checking the area earlier, he said he could not see anything so he put his hand in and started touching around the area and came across the ipod touch. The little idiot had left it there after hearing me say that the ipod was gone. He made everyone wait for the cops and his technician ended up losing 2 to 3 jobs while waiting (we were feeling bad for the tech but now that I read the below, I don’t feel so bad after all). All that time he knew were it was, we gave him the option of handing it over and he did not care, it was so frustrating and the kid had no remorse over it, he kept denying everything. I am sure it was not his first time. God knows how many other things he has stolen and his Supervisor had no clue.
Anyways, I called off the cops by request of my husband and I cancelled the contract with National Home Services. In a way, I am glad this happened, otherwise we would have been stuck with this water heater. It’s true what they say: Things happen for a reason.
Please be careful when you have people coming into your home. You never know what they will take. It’s so sad to know that you can’t trust anyone.
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sorry it should read **Ladder not latter
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Sorry to hear about that, you should send them a complaint here also: http://www.nationalhomeservices.ca/contact_us.html
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I’ve posted a complain on their website. thank you.
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What is everyone whining about?
1. Don’t sign contracts before you read them.
2. If you don’t like the terms of the contract or what is being offered, decline it.
3. If you don’t want to rent a major appliance, buy it – from whatever company you want.
If you sign a contract, you are bound by it – be an adult and deal with it – maybe even learn from your mistake instead of shifting the blame on to someone else.
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Well, maybe you read my post then you would know why I am bitching.
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You can go tell the other thousands of other people to stop complaining and be an adult at:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/national-home-services-water-heater-674026/
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/power_of_persuasion/main.html
and some other sites…
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I did read your post. In it you admit you signed the contract before doing any research about the cost of renting vs buying a water heater – and you obviously didn’t read the contract since you were astonished to find out that it was for 15 years!
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Yes I signed it. What’s wrong with signing things and doing research after and found out that the salesman was misleading you?
Don’t come here and tell me you are bound by it because of misleading information. Who the hell are you to tell me if I sign something that was wrongfully misleading and ILLEGAL. To just say to be an adult and deal with it. I’m not going to just let people like you walk all over me. Would you want someone coming in to your house pretending they are here to help you by giving you wrong information and you’re telling me to be an adult and stick with it because I sign a piece of paper by misleading information? Why don’t you be an adult and stop misleading everyoneto sign?
I’ll admit, the sale guy was good (good at b/s). ok? I screw up and I hope other people don’t fall for it.
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National are saying that they’ll replace the water heater with a high efficiency model. The only high efficiency water heater available on the marketplace is branded Polaris water heater made by American Water Heater from tennesee. National is plain lying and are overstating the issue about “dirty water heaters that need to be replaced”. I over 30 years in the business and have been in every water heater manufacturer’s plant. The efficiency has not changed from days gone by. If you are on city water or if you live in a hard water area and have a water softener there will be a small amount of crud inside the bottom of the water heater. Don’t worry about it, it’s normal and the tanks will not be affected to the point that the efficiency is lower as there are additional standard design features that provide the transfer of heat from the flame to the water inside the tank.
Never sign a contract or agreement before you have done your homework.
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One more thing. A power vented appliance is actually less efficient than a standard water heater. All a power vented model is a conventional tank with a ventor motor on the top of the tank. Reason why a power vented tank is less efficient is due to the large amount of air that is pulled thru the tank during the combustion cycle.
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I sign the contract with National last month when they came to my door and 2 weeks ago they sent someone to replace my water heater with National water heater. The next day the new water heater started to leak out water, I called National and they said they were going to send someone to have it fix the next mourning.
The next day came and no one came and I call National again and they finally send someone to fix it the day after that. We went almost 3 days without hot water. If we were paying 4 dollars more than our last provider, we expect better service. I wish I can cancel my contract but now everything is install, we don’t have much of a choice.
Stay away from National Home Services water heater!!
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I had someone from Universal the other week. I figure I’ll let him in since he did say he’s not selling anything. Remember he said “..not here to sell anything” and he’s not from National Home Services so I thought it was ok. I didn’t know at the time Universal and National were the same companies.
Once he saw my water heater and he pointed to the black plastic pipe that is on top of the water heater. Then he pulled out a piece of paper from his clip board and supposedly the paper was from the Ontario government saying that black plastic pipe may leak out carbon dioxide. The Universal guy then said he will have some one come over to fix it and get a new water tank. I didn’t even had the chance to read the paper…
So I asked him why couldn’t he just remove the plastic pipe instead of removing the entire water heater? The Universal guy said everything need to be replace with a more energy efficient tank. But he said he wasn’t here to sell anything as I remember…
I tried to get rid of him, then he tried to make me feel guilty by saying what if it leaked and people in the house could die. Then I told him that’s why they invented the carbon dioxide alert, and the fire alarm which is basically 5 feet from the water heater.
I just wasted 15 minutes of my evening. No more opening doors to some strangers…
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FYI…it is a requirement that when a power vented water heater, which utilizes abs plastic pipe needs to be replaced the old plastic vent cannot be used. There is a new type of plastic vent approved for power vented water heaters and hi efficiency furnaces.
Too bad that the old days of dealing with Consumers Gas are gone. In my opinion all of these new Water Heater Companies are the finest examples of deceit and lies.
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To file a complaint against a gas marketer, electricity retailer or other market participant, contact the OEB Consumer Relations Centre between 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. at: 1-877-632-2727 (toll-free) or 416-314-2455
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They came to our home just last week. I was away for a job interview (been lay off in 8 months my husband 4 months) when I came back home my husband told me about the new water heater from a company I never heard called National Home Services.
The following day they came ready to install the water heater and I didn’t even do my research yet. But from what I know is that we have 10 days to look at everything over and they should phone us to confirm, but that never happen.
We called to to their office to cancel and they told us we had to pay $600 to uninstall it. What a big scam this is. I can’t believe they are people doing this in Canada and I have no job atm. Because of the $600 they want from us, we thought we had no other choice.
Until I found this article at thestar.com
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/701345
We are not the only one they did this too. Now we are filling a complaint to Ontario Energy Board and trying remove this tank and National Home Services from our life.
Instead of playing by the rules these guys are looking at every single loop hole they can get. I’m taking this very personal….I hope they all be in jail one of these days.
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Very interesting forum.
We just received a “visit” from a National Home Service rep. I am wary of letting salesmen into our home, but he implied that he had been sent by Enbridge, and that the company was conducting a “green” campaign to replace old water heaters. Everything seemed legit until he asked to see our Enbridge bill; when I asked him why Enbridge had not supplied him with a list of customers and account numbers, I was given some gobbledygook about Direct Energy and water heaters.
He assured us that we could take some time to think about it and would be able to cancel the installation (which I gather is true, from what I have read here and elsewhere), but insisted on filling out the paperwork anyway. He then made a call to book the installation, which could have been done as early as Monday (this being Friday, that is a pretty quick turn-around — and a very short cooling-off period).
In retrospect, there were a number of warning signs, not the least of which was the assertion that we were currently paying a quarterly maintenance charge on our rental water heater so the extra $5.00 they wanted to charge us on a monthly basis would not be out of line. According to our rental company (we checked after the fellow left), we are paying a rental charge that does not vary from month to month.
As they say, buyer beware….
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It’s a shame that this forum is but a mere after thought related to Nationals deceiptful activities. I wish there was some way of getting the warning sign out to the masses. Do not entertain any water heater offer from anyone knocking on your door or thru telemarketing campaigns.
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I must say that a lot of people seem to be quite angry at NHS for their business principles. I have to say that I have read almost all if not all the posts on this site and can only agree with a few posts. Firstly, one should indeed read all contracts before ever putting ink to paper, that’s elementary. However if we are all believers in saving the planet and having a greener world then there are steps that need to be taken and NHS have taken that brave step in the right direction by offering a water heater that gives you better water quality and conserves on the use of natural gas. Should it be at a cost, YES, as nothing is ever free, how many of us at this time of economic instability can afford take a few grand out of our pockets and purchase outright a water tank that is energy efficient. NHS is offering it at a cost yes but why bicker and fight over an extra $4 or $5 bucks that goes towards a greener world. Come on guys, lets be fair, take the time to read the contract and understand what the offer is before signing the dotted line. At the end of the day we are all going to be winners, a greener world and a water heater thats worth quite a few grand in our homes for $5 bucks a mth.
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“I must say that a lot of people seem to be quite angry at NHS for their business principles. I have to say that I have read almost all if not all the posts on this site and can only agree with a few posts.”
I don’t think you read it carefully enough. You will notice that on this page there are links to different websites, blogs, forums, news paper articles and even a video that was made by CBC warning about door to door sale tactic like National Home Services and their other companies. This page is not the only place where people are angry and you are still defending National Home Services? Obviously you are too blinded with greed.
“Firstly, one should indeed read all contracts before ever putting ink to paper, that’s elementary.”
You send your pushy con salesmen to my home and told me he was some related to our current provider so I let them in. Then he gave me false information and fear tactics so I will sign the contract to get his commission. Which part you do not understand? How many more times I have to repeat this? Maybe you should read it again because you’re missing that point. The only people that would say anything good about National Home Services and their other companies are the people profiting from this. That’s Elementary.
“However if we are all believers in saving the planet and having a greener world then there are steps that need to be taken and NHS have taken that brave step in the right direction by offering a water heater that gives you better water quality and conserves on the use of natural gas.”
You sounded just like the National Home Serive sale guy that came to my house. Your tank is really not much different from any other tank. If you think you are super man to save the world by offering us this energy cost saving tank, then why do you want us to stay with your tank for 15 years? In the next 5 years there will be new technology in the water heater market that will be much more energy efficient than your tanks, but we are stuck with the 15 years contract or get a big fine to get away from you.
“Come on guys, lets be fair, take the time to read the contract and understand what the offer is before signing the dotted line. At the end of the day we are all going to be winners, a greener world and a water heater thats worth quite a few grand in our homes for $5 bucks a mth.”
Let’s be fair? You’re the one came knocking on my door and misleading us to sign. Now you are installing the water heater the next day so people don’t have their 10 days cooling period. Be fair? What about the people who sign and didn’t even get the chance to read the contract which was at the back of the paper? I personal wasn’t told about any contract. What about the $4300 dollars people have to pay the next 15 years for a $1000 tank? What about the $600 dollars fine for breaking the contract? All of you should go to jail. I think that is fair.
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Justin, if you have read all of the information available on this subject, you will be aware that not only is their water heater most likely not any more energy-efficient than an average model, but the full cost of a 15 year rental agreement is about $4000.00 — which is at least 4, maybe 5 times more than the cost of the tank.
These companies are capitalizing on the green movement by taking advantage of environmentally sensitive citizens. No offense, but your response demonstrates how easily thay can get away with it.
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Marie, those who signed the contract without reading it properly have only themselves to blame. But correct me if am wrong, is NHS not running a business,and if it is a business and a service they are offering should they not be entitled to a profit? They have overheads and expenses associated with this service. Again I have to state that people ought to read the contracts properly before signing the dotted line. But there maybe a small percentile who could afford the luxury of spending a grand or two to purchase outright an energy efficient water heater. But what about those who can’t? Then god forbid something should happen to your water heater and you have to call someone in to repair, maybe you fall into that percentile again that can afford to dish out $500 bucks to the repair man. NHS offers regular service and maintenance free of charge during the 15 year contract. But hey maybe $5 a month is too much to sacrifice for a greener tomorrow!
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You’re right, Justin. Tomorrow will be very green — specially for NHS.
It’s not so much the product, but the underhanded way in which they manage to get themselves into people’s homes. They imply that it is a mandatory tank replacement, when all they are doing is trying to poach someone else’s customers. Does that sound ethical to you?
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Just for clarification purposes. The water heater that National uses is no different than any other natural or propane tank from an efficiency perpespective. They’re claim to do performance checks on the water heater’s is very misleading. There’s nothing to check. The water heater either works or it doesn’t.
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“Marie, those who signed the contract without reading it properly have only themselves to blame.”
This was what happened when the National Home Service sale guy came here. He had the contract on his clipboard along with his other scripts. I only saw the front page of the contract on his clipboard and when I signed the contract it was on the front page not knowing there was more written contract at the back. At all time when the National Home Service sale guy was inside my house, he never show me the contract at the back or mention it, I only saw the front page where he filled out the form with my name, address and my signature at the bottom. Again, he never asked or showed me the back of the contract where there were more written agreements.
After I signed the contract we went up stairs where he phoned his office to make an appointment, and again the contract was still in his clipboard with my signature on it only showing the front page. After he was done talking on the phone and set up the water heater installation appointment. He stood up and was ready to leave. It was then when he finally ripped the back copy of the contract with the written contract at the back. I remember it was a yellow copy and that was the only time when I notice there where more stuff I need to read but at that time he was already walking away of the house. I didn’t even have time to read it and ask him questions, he was already gone.
If this was something we needed or wanted, why are you hiding the contract for?
If your service and deal was so great and it will save the world. Why don’t you post your 15 years contract and the 3-5 dollars extra per month and the $600 dollars cancellation fee and posted on your website? I mean you’re going to save the world. You are superman. Why don’t you advertise it? Why don’t you advertise it on newspapers and magazines? What’s there to hind? If it’s so good I’ll call you and you don’t have to hire some con man coming to my house.
Go back to your desk and think of another way to get people to sign your little contract and then complain why people hate you so much.
“Then god forbid something should happen to your water heater and you have to call someone in to repair, maybe you fall into that percentile again that can afford to dish out $500 bucks to the repair man.”
I had the motor not working last year, but we called our current provider and they came the next mourning to fix it at no charge. It happened because we had some visitors over and I guess the motor gave out on us, but overall our water heater never had any problem.
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Hi,
I read the associated link somewhere that “the retailer MUST wait ten days before a signed deal can be finalized”. How comes that mine was installed in the second day? since the water tank is already installed, I wonder if there is still a way out for me.
Thanks,
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They are doing this because they want to make it harder for people to remove the tank. They want you to get stuck with their 15 years contract and pay more than you have to. But you have your right. You have 10 days to think about door to door purchase. You should be able to remove National Home Services tank at no charge.
Just in case someone miss the link:
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/701345
They are now installing the water heater tank the next day without 10-60 days reaffirmed by the customer. If their product is so good why are they misleading everyone to sign and breaking the laws not letting the consumer have their 10-60 days to reaffirmed by phone?
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I understand this thread is mainly about National and although I have never had them visit my house and don’t have any personal complaints I do have a confession, I am a sales agent for a water heater company called Reliance Home Comfort. I am not writing this to promote Reliance but rather to show people that although National does have many bad points these points are not necessarily transferable to other companies.
Similar to how Direct Energy is the default water heater supplier in Enbridge areas, Reliance is the default supplier in any Union Gas areas. There are no contracts involved with us or with DE and the monthly rental rates are always within 20-30cents of each other (except for the tankless, I don’t remember DE’s tankless rate off the top of my head right now). Ultimately as far the as the customer is concerned they’re paying roughly the same monthly rent, they get a brand new energy efficient water heater (however if the customer’s current tank is within the last 4-5 years I will not replace it), and they get the first 3 months of the rental free. I never represent myself as affiliated with Enbridge in any way, and if any homeowner every wrongly assumes I am I always correct them and explain that Enbridge is just the gas utility and their water heater is most likely from DE which is indeed a competitor for Reliance. I explain with Reliance they will normally get a separate bill for the water heater however if they choose to keep it on the Enbridge bill there is an additional cost of $2/month as they charge us to have it on their bill.
I am always honest with the homeowner and never pushy (it actually wastes a lot of time trying to push someone into something they don’t wish to do). Ultimately I am trying to say that there is nothing wrong with door to door sales however there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, and unfortunately based on what I read here and from feedback I get from many of the homeowners more often than not I find NHS, Livclean, and admittedly some other Reliance agents as well has done it the wrong way. In conclusion all I will ask is that if someone knocks on your door hear them out, but if they are pushy or represent themselves as Enbridge than you have all the right to say no.
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“They came in because they claim they are related to our current provider or they made it sound like they were sent by the government” Yup the asshole that showed up at my door from NHS said he was representing the company that was currently providing us with our service, I had to ask him twice to make sure and when he understood that I knew what I was talking about it was only then he retracted. That is deceitful tactics. If he had been honest and told me he was competing with DE I would have listened to his spiel, then would have told him to fuck off nicely.
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Well, to be honest, anyone that is still with DE(Direct Energy) is stupid because they dont service your water heater for anyone without a cost. At least NHS come out and maintain/clean your water heater every 5 years FREE of charge. Why? Because you pay a “rental fee” every month. Has anyone drained there water heater tank to see brown water come out, maybe after 5+ years of having your water heater? Didnt think so. Whoever is with there “current” provider still and will never get great service (DE). You have a water heater for 10, 15 or maybe 20+ years, does your “current” provider call you to maintain/clean or at least drain your water heater every 6 months? Nope. Why? Because you end up paying more $$$$ on your gas/energy bill, the burner in your water heater is covered with sediment and calcium, so it has to BURN MORE ENERGY!!! Which means you pay MORE MONEY!!! LOL!!! This shit is so funny. Stuff like Maintenance, flush, combustion ventilation check, carbon MONOXIDE reading(not DIOXIDE); Does DE or any current provider check these services for free? NOPE. “ENERGY STAR qualified water heaters use at least 5 percent less energy than conventional models” This is from a goverment website. So you would save money upgrading to a ENERGY STAR water heater. DUH!!! LOL!!!
Here are some links everyone should read, and really please read. There are many more sites but I dont need to explain anymore, like i said this is way too funny. All the effort in finding little flaws that every company has, rather than finding out if anything they said is actually true…
PS. THOM stop bitching and complaining. Your rental fee will go up and up every year anyway if you are with DE.
http://www.newinhomes.com/articles/article.jsp?article=39
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/business/manufacturers/qualified-hvac-products.cfm
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=water_heat.pr_water_heaters
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This is the person who work for National Home Services. See the quality of the people that work for National Home Services? Calling everyone stupid because we didn’t need our 7 years old tank replace with 15 years contract which I found out on my own and we don’t need some ass hole like you in our home by lying about being related by our current provider.
It is not funny when someone came knocking on your door saying they were sent by our current provider or lying they were sent by the government. What is so funny about that? What so funny about people getting their tank installed the next day without their 10 days cooling period? What so funny about the people who want to cancel and get asked for a $500 canceling fee? What so funny about selling your product without telling your customers about the 15 years contract? Why is it so stupid to stay with DE? What’s so stupid about not signing up with an ass hole like you defrauding people to buy something they don’t need and not telling us all the details?
Did you know you can get sue and go to jail for misleading people like that? You’re lucky I don’t know much about the law, or I would be more than happy to sue a company like National Home Services and people like you.
Try to laugh about it then.
I’m not going into the quality of water and quality of water tank. I don’t care about your tank, or saving cost. I just don’t want low life mother f*****s like you coming in here and lied because you want your commissions.
Also, I read your links. National Home Services tank is maybe 1% and up to 5% more energy efficient than the non energy star rated tanks. But I did the math and that’s no more than $1 we would save each month, but we would have to pay National Home Services $4 dollars more each month, what so stupid about that?
Regarding DE maintenance, they send us a letter each year for service and cleaning. All we have to do is call them to make an appointment, but most of the time we’re too busy and forget to call.
Again, I don’t care about National Home Services tanks, star energy or not. It’s about National Home Services sale men misleading sale pitches trying to get inside my home. You would love that everyone would just shut up and go with you. Don’t worry about me complaining, since we are so stupid not to go with you. You have nothing to worry about. Ass hole!
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“All the effort in finding little flaws that every company has”
This is not a little flaw, the people behind National Home Services are the same people behind Universal Energy. Everyone know what scammers are Universal Energy, it is not surprising it is the same thing with National Home Services.
I bet you didnt even know about that and you work for National Home Services. They only hired you because you are cheap, can’t find a job, does whatever they ask you to do, easy to take advantage of and good at deceiving people.
Here’s how they hire someone like you. 20 seconds to 2 minutes job interview and you’re in and off into their mini vans.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/universal-energy-interview-358133/
Also, Chicago — Attorney General sued Energy Savings Corp. which is related to National Home Services got sued for $1 million dollars. Don’t get me started. This is just one of many law suits. We need that Attorney General to work in Ontario.
Little flaw? please….
Here’s a Quote from the article of the new law in Chicago to protect the consumers from this company, or should I say companies:
——————————————–
Specifically, the new law:
- Requires all sales solicitations to clearly disclose the prices, terms and conditions of all products and services;
-Prohibits suppliers from misrepresenting their affiliation with a gas utility, governmental body or consumer group;
-Provides consumers with a right to cancel within 10 days after the gas utility notifies them of the switch and 10 days after the date of the first bill if they find that the service is not as promised;
-Limits early termination fees to $50 and requires any agreement containing an early termination clause to disclose the total cancellation fee.
——————————————–
Sound familiar????
Read more here:
http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/pressroom/2009_05/20090514.html
Again, Energy Savings Corp. is related to National Home Services!
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Energy Star Tanks Help The Enviroment Thats the Bottom Line if Direct Cares So Much Why Dont They Lower There rate on Existing Tanks and or Replace With a Goverment Approved Energy Star Tank That Saves The Enviroment and Our Childrens Future Enviroment ???
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The difference in tank performance between the so called higher efficiency tanks versus the “older” models is insignificant. Why should Direct Energy lower the cost on a tank that is working properly?
Bottom line is, don’t do business with National..
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William, WTF is wrong with you? National Home Services and their other companies are being sue left and right. Didn’t you read my above comments? Still using that same ol’ sale pitch about saving the world and then turn around trying to sneak your way inside someone’s home. First, try to tell people about your long term contract, and stop lying to people you were sent by the government or our current provider. Then use your same ol sale pitch. Stop knocking on people’s door and try to get yourself inside their home.
This is no more about Star rated tank. Since there is more than enough proof that National Home Services tank is no more better than any other tanks. It is about shaddy tactics used by National Home Services. I can save the world without National Home Services tanks and definitely without National Home Services misleading sale tactics, so f*** off.
If your next comment, or any comments that is still about saving the world with no explanation or justification why National Home Services is misleading people and why National Home Services is not telling the consumers all the facts about their contract for the consumers to decide on their own. Your comment will be deleted without that clarification.
( It is just a waste of time to reply to the same criminals. )
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Now I am a criminal I dont Work For NHS I work For LivClean We rent Tanks As well ,We Are Green Friendly and offer our customers choice to reduce there carbon footprint is this so wroung as well . Mr Thom The Genieus Whos gonna save the world from Competition you are a lonely Fool
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I’m talking about these companies run by the same people going around door to door with their deceptive sales tactics.
CANADA
Just Energy Exchange Corp.
Just Energy
National Home Services
Universal Energy Group Ltd.
Newten Home Comfort Inc (or just Newten)
Ontario Energy Savings Corp**
Alberta Energy Savings L.P
Energy Savings Group
USA
Us Energy Saving Corp
US Energy Savings Corp
USESC
Energy Savings Group
Natural Gas Delivery
And I didn’t invite National Home Services, they came here trying to deceive us with their save the world speech. If I want to save the world, I’ll find my own ways? ( like installing a tankless system ) No need for National Home Services to come knocking uninvited…Natioanl Home Services and there other companies are no different than those spam emails or those tele marketing phone calls.
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Life seemingly has a way of providing correction to those who are responsible in deliberately misleading people. National Home Service will either clean up their act or may very well go out of business. It will take thousands of people to get dooped into National’s rhetoric to provide the income needed to keep the company going. I don’t think that National will be successful in the long run.
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Steve, let’s hope so. National Home Services are the same people as Universal and Just Energy and some other companies they have all over North America. They have a lot of money because they been doing this in the gas market for a long time. It seem to me that they only started in the hot water tank market in the past year. I don’t think they will stop until there is a new law pass to protect the consumers in Ontario or Canada. There are a lot of people in Ontario that doesn’t know how to use the internet or speak/read English. But for now I’m going to try to spread the words as much as I can.
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There is no need to cus people who have comments Thom you are no better than NHS Telling people to F That And Go FXXK yoursself calling and sladering anmyone who has a different opinion !!! than you, YOU should be ashame of yourself
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I actually agree with you, yes it’s rude, but that’s how I feel when someone came knocking on my door uninvited then lied in my face that they were somehow related to my current provider or sent by the government. Came in my home then didn’t tell me about all the terms/conditions in the contract and never tell me anything about the long term contract. Then came to my website to called everyone stupid because we didnt sign up with National Home Services. I don’t work for National Home Services, I’m not going to pet their sales men on the back and tell them they’re doing a good job. Not because they have a different opinion. No YOU should be ashamed for working for National Home Services.
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Do some Research on LivClean WE Are The BEST our Rates are Only $6 dollars More But We Provide You With Superior Service , We also Fixed Gas and Electric Green and our cost is significantly higher but you save the planet is this so wroung ,I work and Make a meager living why are you trying to kill our Jobs
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I’m curious. What is it that your company does that makes it stand out as giving superior service? How are you saving the planet? Can you justify the higher charges? Not one of your Technicians have xray vision to know what’s going on inside of the tank. The marketing ploy stating that a “free” inspection is done from time to time is a technical farce. The inspection isn’t free, the cost to do so is built into the higher monthly charge.
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More proof why you should never deal with these companies.
Read it here.
Citizens Utility Board’s Executive Director David Kolata claimed that, “This company (Just Energy aka National Home Services) is engaged in the worst kind of consumer fraud, preying on people’s fears of rising natural gas bills and resorting to deception in order to boost sales.”
“U.S. Energy (aka Just Energy / National Home Services) is purposely deceiving consumers,” Attorney General Madigan said. “Many of these families signed up for this program based on the false claim that they would save on their monthly utility bills. Instead, U.S. Energy locked them into a contract that actually charged them more for natural gas.”
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thanks a million for sharing
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All of these gas marketing companies are scum. I haven’t almost fell victims to these pieces of $$%@ so many times. Luckily there is a cool off period of 10 days. Friends of mine have fallen victims to gas rates, electricity rates, water heaters, and protection plans. Bottom line is they all try to make money off of the ignorant.
The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT needs to do something about these scum suckers. This should not be allowed to continue. These people come to your door, lie to your face and the consumer pays their bills for them. They are basically robbing people and stealing their hard earned money. Many have know idea what is happening. But if you read the numbers nine out ten you don’t save anything, you spend.
My water heater is currently with direct energy and I’ve had it since I bought my house because that’s what it came with (5 years ago). Being a new home owner I didn’t know any better. However my tank has broken down 5 times or so and is believe it or not currently not working right. It doesn’t turn on when it’s supposed to and there is rust in the hot water when the tank is drained. That is why I looked up NHS, as they have been to my door.
The fact that my tank has broken down 5 times and every time they pretty much had to replace the control board and there is the rust in the tank makes me a little weary of buying my own tank, but with a warranty on it, it might not be that bad. However I’m not planning on staying in my new home forever so it might not be worth buying a new tank now. So here is my dilemma, but getting a tank from NHS on a 15 year contract will not do. I guess I will have to deal with direct energy, buy a new one, or look for another rental company, which I haven’t found a legitimate one.
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You’ve got this wrong:
“Don’t bother sending your complaints to the Ontario Energy Board (OEB). The CEO and President of Just Energy, Ken Hartwick (the same guy using the door to door sales for Universal Energy, US Energy Saving, National Home Services and a few other companies) he is also one of the Ontario Energy Association’s Board of Directors read here. Why do you think no one is doing anything about this scam at OEB? Because the President and CEO of Just Energy, (also run National Home Services) is one of the head Director at OEB.”
The OEA and OEB are not the same body. Ken Hartwick is on the board of the Ontario Energy Association (OEA) which is an industry trade association. The Ontario Energy Board (OEB) is a government agency and you can see who’s on their board of directors here: http://www.oeb.gov.on.ca/OEB/Industry/About+the+OEB/Who+We+Are
However, you are right that complaints about National Home Services shouldn’t got to the OEB – but that’s because the OEB doesn’t regulate water heater rental agreements, not because of who sits on the board.
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Thanks for the correction. I was doubting about that one myself…
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Thanks, they just showed up at my door, I didn’t sign, and he became very agitated when I said I wouldn’t sign until I checked out the company.
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The agent from National Home Services just left and the first thing I did was Google them and found this forum. Subsequently, I called them to cancel the contract (as it states I can do in Section 7 on the back of the contract form). I spoke to someone who was reluctant to cancel the contract until the water heater was installed, saying that at that point, I had 10 days to cancel the contract at no cost to me, to which I pointed out that there was an account closure charge of $250 plus a disconnect charge of $200, plus an equipment return charge of $150, for a total of $600. Hw begrudgingly admitted that this was true but they could not afford to have people backing out of their contracts if there was nothing to hold them in. Finally, he asked what prompted me to cancel the contract, so I told him about the Marketplace segment on this forum. His response was that they had many competitors who want them to do poorly and who will stop at nothing to ensure they get bad publicity. I pointed out that Marketplace is a pretty honest program, to which he responded that if you have enough money, you can get anything on TV. In the end, he agreed to cancel my contract and mentioned that he would be putting it on the “pile” that will be forwarded to his boss.
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I noticed during the Raptors game last night that “Just Energy” had purchased advertising space during the credits after the game. I see it as an expensive feeble attempt to legitimize their company as a trusted company to deal with. The best protection for the consumer is still word of mouth. Pass your experiances along to your friends. You’ll be doing them a favour.
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I was very interested to read what was on this site, until it came upon me….this is a site fully dedicated to whiners that are uneducated and unhappy that Direct Energy no longer has control of the market.Consumers deserve other companies offering better solutions. As well it is so obvious that the creator of this site is looking to advertise for Direct Energy…it could not be any more blatent. I will save my down time reading something geared for a higher IQ level….hmmmm how does old Dr Suess sound?This drivel just doesn’t cut it.
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Well, this is interesting. This post is not about Direct Energy. It is about National Home Services (water heater division). You might want to read the top header to find that answer and it is about the sleazy sale tactics used by National Home Services (it’s on the second paragraph). With your high IQ how can you miss that? Maybe you had a brain fart and miss that point? I don’t blame you. Believe me if DE or any other companies tried to pull this one on me again I’ll write something about it.
“to whiners that are uneducated and unhappy that Direct Energy no longer has control of the market”
I’m pretty sure there are at least a few educated people with a degree or a master degree who signed up with National Home Services then find out what they got themselves into and decided to cancel.
Also, I don’t care if National Home Services or De or any other water heating companies has control of the market. I can give a rat tail about it! I ONLY care when some company send their “independent” sale agent to my HOME and lied in front of my face or lied to my family members. Doesnt matter if that agent came from DE or National Home Services or any other company. When you lied and not telling me all the facts. You deserve some beating! Clear enough for you Mr. High IQ I am better than everyone?
I don’t know where you base your idea I am advertising for DE. I am only telling my story, yes I have DE water heater tank because it came with the house when we moved in and I’m just telling how it is, not promoting them. I also said somewhere on this page the reasons why we don’t want National Home Services tank. No need to have all sort of fines and payment if we were to go with National Home Services and break the contract when we moved. And thanks to National Home Services for not telling us all the terms and conditions in their contract.
Just a few weeks ago I even had someone who claimed to be working for National Home Services posted his comment about DE and it is right on the second comment of this page..
http://www.keyframe5.com/national-home-services-water-heater-division/comment-page-1/#comment-3823
If I work for DE why would I want to let him post something like that? I guess you had another brain fart for missing that point.
I’ll admit, I did deleted some comments because they weren’t helping anyone. All they had to say is “people are stupid”, “read the contract”, “you have 10 days”, “whiners” and so on.
Tell me this: why National Home Services is not telling the consumers all of their terms and conditions?
Also, I allow many other employees from National Home Services posted their comments. So this site is not all about “whiners”. But I guess your head is so big and your high IQ must had a brain fart to miss all other comments by National Home Services employees.
So no, this site is not fully dedicated to “whiners”. This site is a blog where I write about random stuff like my hobbies and everyday routines. I did not ask National Home Services to come to my home, they came here. Not my problem when National Home Services send someone to my home and I wrote about my experience.
Also, I stated that “I don’t work or affiliate to DE or any energy companies.”
http://www.keyframe5.com/national-home-services-water-heater-division/comment-page-1/#comment-3144
But I guess you had another brain fart to miss that one also.
Trust me, I rather write about other stuff.
“I will save my down time reading something geared for a higher IQ level”
Why you telling me this? You think I care what you read? Seriously, I can careless if you brought a gun, pointed the gun at your high IQ head and pull the trigger. I am not holding a gun to your head and force you to come here. I’m not giving anyone money or incentive to read this. I looked up my log and find that you’re the one who search the term “National Home Services Scam” (don’t worry I know) and you came to my page to read it.
What do you expect when you type in “National Home Services Scam” in the search engines? You think you’re going to have compliments about National Home Services?
Here’s a tip to add in to your massive brain, if you want to read something with higher IQ I suggest you to search the term “Esquire” or “Wired”. Dr Suess is a good start. You’re the one that is whining.
I know my English is not very good and I’m not here to win any awards in Literature. I am just telling my story, I want to make my point and now I know I am getting my point across.
Go get your Dr Suess and have a cup of tea. Why bother commenting? Wow big freaking lost you won’t be coming back LOL!
If you want to write something intelligent that match your IQ, I suggest you start your own website and start writing. I’m sure you know how to build a website since you are so smart.
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I am honestly not surprised that you refuse to post my opinion. To clarify one thing…I typed in National Home Services onto my google browser and your site was the 2nd listed on the first page…maybe before you begin your rant…it would benifit those in such a public form if you were aware of all sides. You now fall into the category of sheep in my book….following mainstream media and the mud slinging huge corperations involve themselves in…I find it very difficult to reason with anyone that uses the term “brain fart” when rebutting a comment…a good debator you are not sir…good luck and don’t run with scissors…(just a bit advice…I feel you need all the help you can get)
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You have it wrong again.
This is NOT about me. I don’t give a rat tail what you think about ME. OK? I don’t need you or anyone else feeling sorry for me. I’ll be ok lol
Go read your Dr Suess already. Why are you back here talking to some uneducated person like me? I’m not here to debate you.
You want to sign up with National Home Services and their long term contract, then go ahead.
You typed “National Home Services Scam” first, then you typed “National Home Services”. But Whatever…
I did not follow any mainstream media. If you look at the date of this post, I wrote this about National Home Services all on my own back in March 17th, 2009 and the show on CBC you’re referring to just happened to aired on March 20, 2009. I didnt even watch the show till late summer of 2009.
Is that all you have to say? Telling me I need help? Oh now you feeling sorry for me? Why dont you answer my last question on National Home Services behalf of why they’re not telling the consumers about all the terms, conditions and fees?
Go have fun with your long term contract and other hidden payments National Home Services have to offer. I’m not where to debate you, I am here to tell you what National Home Services and their other companies are all about.
Go have another brain fart Mr. High IQ. I am so smart. Go make your own website already.
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Personally I could care less about direct energy. I use there tank and it sucks and I am looking into options to change it. I think the creator of the blog is doing a good job because the last thing people need is to get stuck into a bs contract. Like I almost did. The water heater rental industry is a scam as far as I’m concerned. Only in Ontario. Lol.
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Hello everyone,
I am planning to upgrade to a larger tank. After reading this forum, I called the National Home Services customer service at 1 877 673 5373 and spoke one of the representatives.
Told her I had a few very straight forward questions and I wanted a streaight forward answers.
My first question was:
“Are we or are we not locked in a 15-year rental contract”
The answer was:
“Yes, you are!”
My second question was:
“If I need to cancel my contract for whatever reason, is it true that I will have to buy out the remainder of the contract?”
The answer was:
“Yes, unless you sell your house and the new owner agrees to carry on with your contract”
My final question was:
“Does it say clearly on the terms & conditions that we are locking in a contract for 15 years?, if yes where?”
She refers to the back of the contract where it says Terms&Conditions and read me a part saying something like “if customer requests replacement in the 13th year of installation…” . Since I do not have the contract I am not sure how this part goes exactly (can anyone post the part?), but after listening to the representative reading me this part I still didn’t get the idea that we are being informed clearly and openly that we will be locked in a 15-year contract.
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